Classification of Colden Kites in 4th and 5th class (An attempt...)

[JapanX]

So you don’t like rivets rule. Yep.

So what is yours rule? Here it is.

General rule of dating Golden Kites in 4^th and 5^th classes (sounds quite pompous )

1) Check riverts! If they are centered – it may be Meiji or Showa piece, but if they carried on corners its definitely old badge most likely from Taisho.

2) Check enamel! Carrot enamel in the rays and light blue on the shields are typical for older badges and more glassy, transparent ruby-like enamel in the rays and the darkly dark blue on shields are typical for Showa badges.

3) Take a good look at the kite! Now look at the classification. Is it type 1 or is it type 7 (they are easily identifiable)? Neither? Then check out type 2,3,4,5 and 6 (for identification of the later two use riverts).

4) Check thickness of the sign! If it`s thick, than it`s old. And vice versa.

That’s mine recommendation.

[JapanX]

And that’s all I wanted to say (for today ). Will be glad to hear your comments dear colleagues.

Cheers

P.S. Sorry for my rusty English .

[JapanX]

P.S.

"I should say that from my experience this are very unstable characteristics. I mean color of the enamel"

May sound like an unsubstantiated statement.

So I have decided to provide some "documentary evidence"

Here we got two beautiful type 7 specimens (5 class on the left and 4 class on the right).

Edited September 17, 2011 by JapanX

[JapanX]

Here obverses

[JapanX]

and here the reverses

[JapanX]

And one more comparison of two types 7.

This time two 4 classes (at the left - the beginner, and on the right old-timer).

[JapanX]

Reverses.

[JapanX]

P.P.S.

Here better pictures of types 3 and 4 (they was posted in bad quality (I don`t know why)). Maybe moderator will be so kind and will replace originals with this versions (the same goes for the classification table). Sorry for that (it`s my first posts at this forum and the system is unusual for me )

Type 3 Meiji late-Taisho early

[JapanX]

Type 4 Meiji late-Taisho early

[Richard LaTondre]

Excellent dissertation!

Richard

[Paul L Murphy]

An interesting examination, clearly you have put a lot of work into this. Let's all digest it and add comments once we have had a chance to absorb what you have written.

[JapanX]

Excellent dissertation!

Richard

Thanks Richard! Been reading your posts for a while (for a couple of years). Love them. Your appraisal is very important for me.

Nick

Edited September 18, 2011 by JapanX

[JapanX]

An interesting examination, clearly you have put a lot of work into this. Let's all digest it and add comments once we have had a chance to absorb what you have written.

Thank you Paul for your kind response! I look forward for your comments!

I also have some ideas for classification of Kites in 6-7, 3 and 2 classes.

I`am at work right now (yes on Sunday afternoon!) and at the end of the day will try to create a new topic devoted to 3 class. I hope it will make my point more clear (as we all know 3 is a close relative of 4 and 5). I`ve got some beautiful pictures of this rare type. Hope you (and our dear colleagues) will enjoy viewing them.

Nick

Edited September 18, 2011 by JapanX

[kapten_windu]

wonderful research!!

thank you for posting, it make us have more knowledge about golden kites..

Excellent work..!!

Windu

[malarky]

Good job! Very interesting :o

[Markus]

Nick,

Thanks for all your fine work. So little is available about dating the higher classes of the Golden Kite, so every bit of information is greatly appreciated. It looks like my sample of the Golden Kite is clearly a type 7 Showa fifth class. Do you agree? The differences in the Kite birds are so small.

Thank you,

Markus

[JapanX]

Dear Markus,

this is definitely type 7. From the color of enamel (but it`s kinda tricky-never-know-for-sure thing!) on the pole this may be late sign (1943-1945). Especially if the reverse looks like it was not polished, but sandblasted (I am thinking about creating a new theme devoted to that issue). Of course this is only my point of view.

Anyway, nice specimen you got at Coburn Station !

All the best

Nick

Edited September 19, 2011 by JapanX

[JapanX]

Addendum

In type 7 you can observe a small variations of the form of a kite.

Here you can see three main variations.

[JapanX]

Types 7.1 and 7.2 usually have polished or plain reverses, type 7.3 usually has sandblasted reverse.

Let`s look more closely at 7.2 and 7.3 (type 7.1 you can find above).

[JapanX]

Type 7.2

[JapanX]

Type 7.3

[JapanX]

Usually doesn't mean always .

Here type 7.2 with a sandblasted reverse.

But I never met type 7.1 with sandblasted reverse.

[JapanX]

Type 5: Is it Taisho?!

The most problematic part of this classification is of course this type 5 (+6).

Pieces with "scattered" riverts ...

When they were manufactured?

During Taisho epoch?

Why?

Because they are much more scare than type 7 and type 1.

But maybe there scarcity is a function of something else...

It could be simply small private workshop with small production capacity ...

Or they were manufactured during or shortly after 1895 war (not so many cavaliers either) ...

Some of these photo-portraits are indeed quite disturbing.

Of course first will be this one (it was also shown and "discussed" in this thread http://gmic.co.uk/in...ion-for-japanx/ that ended quite lamentable for "riverts rule")

Edited November 26, 2012 by JapanX

[JapanX]

[JapanX]

The name of this cavalier is Hidaka Sounojo

Same photo with different frame ...