Paul R Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 Prussian Lifesaving Medal!! I do have several questions about this medal:1. Are these just as rare as their TR counterparts?2. When was this medal institutionalized?3. Can anyone tell when this was was made(1800s, 1931, etc)Thank you for looking! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul R Posted January 28, 2006 Author Share Posted January 28, 2006 back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 That is a WEIRD looking finish on the scan of the obverse! Quite a bizarre difference with the reverse... it should be real silver when it arrives.Created in 1833, and this version was last awarded in 1918. there were numerous die tweakings over that period, but I don't know of any way to date them specifically.The style of mounting with the nasty raw messy reverse is normally before 1900, after which they wised up and started sewing backings on. Since the hook is nice and the stitching is horrible, I'd venture this is an 1890s mounting, as worn by somebody of non-officer status. In 1937 there were "3,000 living recipients." At a guess, if they averaged 100 bestowals a year, I'd be surprised. I've got specific award numbers up to sometime fairly early (1860s, if I rememember correctly) and that far back was WAY fewer than that annually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 OK, of the "all sorts" alive in 1937, only 65 were women.28 awards were made in the year this was created, 1833. When Friedrich Wilhelm III died in 1840, 300 had been bestowed. When Friedrich Wilhelm IV died in 1861, a total of 1,500 had been bestowed--so 1,500 in 28 years works out to a rough average of about 50 annually.I once went through the half year of 1909's Prussian Milit?r-Wochenblatt that I have, and in that 6 months of 1909, 35 were awarded to members of the Prussian army and Imperial navy. If there were 70 or so within the military annually by 1909, the number to CIVILIANS may or may not have been higher...because these had to be applied for "through channels" that may not have been available to rural civilians and so on. (Mention is also made of a particularly obnoxious regimental commander in the Lifesaving Awards Membership Directory who refused outright to process claims for his soldiers because it was their "duty" to be brave. So between bureaucrats and JERKS....) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul R Posted January 28, 2006 Author Share Posted January 28, 2006 Thanks for the information Rick. This is what the seller said about the physical traits on the medal! It seems like a plated metal."this version is the first on issued directly after they switched from the non wearable (the big one) to wearables - because of the writting of KOENIG and the 5 pointed star on the 1 o'clock position - during the period until 1918 these indications changed one or two times (but i'll need a little time for getting the small paper i wrote those infos down).i can not say anything about the material for sure - from the reverse it seems to be silver, but the front doesn't support it - no markings on the rim, and because of this its a spangenst?ck as posted on the wehrmacht-awards-forum thread is sold it (would guess, that the former owner flipped the medal - the head side was worn as reverse and so the silver finish wore off)"I am very excited about receiving this medal! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul R Posted January 28, 2006 Author Share Posted January 28, 2006 I still need the M1926. How difficult/expensive is this "final link"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kapitular Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 This medal is the first form, awarded from 1833 to ca. 1864 with the little star and "KOENIG". The next form was with three different "flowers" instead of the star and "K?NIG". About 1900 pieces were stamped (coined)? (I don`t know the correct word, sorry) but not all of them were awarded. The medal was made of silver.This medal here is quite different from the original medal.KapitularI still need the M1926. How difficult/expensive is this "final link"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul R Posted October 10, 2007 Author Share Posted October 10, 2007 This medal is the first form, awarded from 1833 to ca. 1864 with the little star and "KOENIG". The next form was with three different "flowers" instead of the star and "K?NIG". About 1900 pieces were stamped (coined)? (I don`t know the correct word, sorry) but not all of them were awarded. The medal was made of silver.This medal here is quite different from the original medal.KapitularCould it be a private purchase medallion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saschaw Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 Could it be a private purchase medallion?I'm pretty sure it is. If it isn't this, it would be a modern fake - what I don't think. On the other hand, you cannot date these privat purchased medals. I guess they didn't change the writing at the same time with the official medals, or directly spoken: I think most of the "Ist model" medals offered are later coinages, from about 1900 or so. I don't have Kapitular's book by now, so I don't know if there is something written about the "Nachpr?gungen, Zweit- und Spangenst?cke" ?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schießplatzmeister Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 (edited) Dear Paul R:The medal that you show is made of base-metal ("kriegsmetal") that is silver-plated. It is probably a very-late war period, or post-war period replacement piece. The ribbon is correct, as is the mounting.I have a piece almost identical to this one in a mounted group (see my posts below).Congratulations on acquiring such an interesting piece!Best regards,"SPM" Edited October 11, 2007 by Schie?platzmeister Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 I should add, since this thread has come up from the dim dark back pages, that since posting the above from last year, I now have Eric Ludvigsen's annual counts up to the start of 1913 for the Prussian Lifesaving Medals On Ribbon. He also had some data for wartime awards, but ouldn't be sure those were complete, since 1913 and 1914 got lost in the publication Bermuda Triangle and only 1 was gazetted in 1918 and two slid through in 1919. There was a dramatic upswing in average annual awards, with 200 or more 1900+ from very very roughly 100 annually before that.1833 to 1919 = 9,055 that Eric counted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schießplatzmeister Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 (edited) Hello everyone:Here is a group that I have in my collection which has the period replacement lifesaving medal of the type shown above. The Prussian 1st Class Landwehr Service Cross is also made from plated base-metal ("kriegsmetal").The group was obviously constructed after 1934 and has a "C.G. ULRICH/NACHFOLGER/HAMBURG" tag on the reverse.I doubt that these poor quality medals were officially issued even late in the war (1918), but there were some of the other Prussian medals that were made in "kriegsmetal" at the very end of the period of issuance. This medal appears to be die-struck, but the details are unlike the earlier coinages. I believe that these pieces are probably private-purchase replacement pieces available post-1918.Best regards,"SPM" Edited October 11, 2007 by Schie?platzmeister Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schießplatzmeister Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 And..a closer view: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul R Posted October 11, 2007 Author Share Posted October 11, 2007 This has been a very revealing thread!! Thank you all! That is one beautiful bar, SPM. Thank you for sharing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Powell Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 This has been a very revealing thread!! Thank you all! GREAT score paul! congrats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul R Posted October 11, 2007 Author Share Posted October 11, 2007 Thanks Scott. I am really liking the Noncombattant Imperial stuff. The earlier the better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kapitular Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 I am quite sure, this medal is not officially issued. It is a private purchase medal after 1918.KapitularCould it be a private purchase medallion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul R Posted October 11, 2007 Author Share Posted October 11, 2007 I am quite sure, this medal is not officially issued. It is a private purchase medal after 1918.KapitularThank you Kapitular. It is still a nice worn example. Thank you again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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