art wall Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 (edited) I had suggested to ncbulldogusa that the value of the goblet, in my estimation, would be about $15K. An ehrenbecher (which is rarely engraved), runs about $10K. An erhrenbecher for a pour le merite recipient about $15K. NO ONE is familiar with these "Thor" goblets as there are very few known. I would imagine that an engraved goblet with documents would be $25-30 K. A goblet with no document (engraved) would be about $20-25 K. Given that an ehrenpokal with no engraving is worth about half (or a little less) to an engraved ehrenpokal, and given the rarity of the Thor goblet, I came up with about $15K value. He had been told by someone that the value would be $10K, but I think that is too low. Does anyone think that number should be higher or lower? Edited July 9, 2012 by art wall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ncbulldogusa Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Twice I have made an entry and then clicked on the "more reply options" but it then tells me that I am not authorized to reply to this topic??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
art wall Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 NCBulldogUSA gave me permission to post images of his goblet. I must say, with full disclosure, that I have offered him $15K for his goblet. If anyone, after evaluation of the images feels, as I do, that this is an original "Thor Goblet" with blank name plate and wants to pay him more, please do so. He is a US military vet and we would like to see him maximize his returns when he is selling a rare and odd piece, which rarely, if ever comes up for sale (engraving or not). This is the most that I would offer, but again, I pointed out to NCBullDogUSA that sometimes these items are the "must have" pieces for which people are willing to pay a premium price. If so, "tee it up" and offer him a better price. There are some "muted" characteristics of the "Thor" which I presume to be that someone took a soft grinder to the piece. Further, must say that there is a differnce in "silver stamps" from the item posted on this site. However, we have determined that the stamps are perfectly legit stamps which are mirrored on other KNOWN LEGITIMATE ehrenbechers of the same maker. The maker appears to be Brueckmann&Soehne, Heilbronn. Tee it up- let's have at it. We have real money on the table( from old Art Wall) and all others are willing to either put,shut up, or make statements, one way or another. Let us help a vet how put his butt on the line for us. The least we can do is to get him a good price for his piece! If you are willing to give the guy more than me, than so be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
art wall Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 First image Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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art wall Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 silver stamp marks- I personally feel as though this is a "match" for the maker Brueckman & Soehne, Heilronn. I have evaluated images from the maker, as well as stamps on ehrenbechers, and they appear the same, from this observers viewpoint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
art wall Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 last view, images of the artist initials Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
art wall Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 (edited) Overall- I like this goblet. It is difficult to evaluate, given the rarity of this piece. However, after very careful evaluation of this piece, I am convinced that it is genuine and am willing to put my "nuts on the line" and offer the guy $15K. I personally do not care what anyone else thinks and am a comfortable buyer for this price, which is a real cash offer. Unlike other sites, in which "collectors" contact holders of potentially valuable items, and attempt to "extract" prices which may be below market value; I feel as thought GENTLEMEN must present objective views, AS THEY KNOW IT, allow others, WITH THE SAME INFORMATION, to make objective evaluations of a piece so that the owner of the piece in question is NOT RAPED, SIMPLY FOR LACK OF INFORMATION, WHICH IS AN AFFRONT TO US AS COLLECTORS, IN GENERAL. This site is not in the interest of "raping" people for our personal financial benefit. THAT IS NOT WHO WE ARE. We have seen collectors seek to "screw" owners of pieces for thier own greed and financial gain. LET US NOT BE THOSE PEOPLE! Witness the "purchase" of a juncker RK from a known recipient, for about ONE FOURTH of the market value, simply due to personal greed and treachery. If you think this piece is worth more than $15K, make the man an offer. I have put forth an offer, which I feel, given due dilligence, is a good offer. I would like to have this piece. However, we must evaluate the kind consideration of the owner in allowing US, AS COLLECTORS, the ability to view his piece in an objective, and not predatory, environment. Have at it boys. I think it is good and don't give a damn what anyone else thinks. If you can offer the man more than $15K, please do so. Edited July 10, 2012 by art wall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VtwinVince Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Very nice piece, and I think certainly worth the offered price. Good luck with the sale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ncbulldogusa Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Thank you Art for posting the pictures, Thank you very much for the fantastic research that you have done in such a short time. I am seriously considering the offer....... Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
art wall Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 You are welcome, Mike. Of course, someone may offer more with the photos and all posted. It is kind of one of those items that people have on thier "Holy Grail" wish list. If not, I will be glad to buy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dond Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Overall- I like this goblet. It is difficult to evaluate, given the rarity of this piece. However, after very careful evaluation of this piece, I am convinced that it is genuine and am willing to put my "nuts on the line" and offer the guy $15K. I personally do not care what anyone else thinks and am a comfortable buyer for this price, which is a real cash offer. Unlike other sites, in which "collectors" contact holders of potentially valuable items, and attempt to "extract" prices which may be below market value; I feel as thought GENTLEMEN must present objective views, AS THEY KNOW IT, allow others, WITH THE SAME INFORMATION, to make objective evaluations of a piece so that the owner of the piece in question is NOT RAPED, SIMPLY FOR LACK OF INFORMATION, WHICH IS AN AFFRONT TO US AS COLLECTORS, IN GENERAL. This site is not in the interest of "raping" people for our personal financial benefit. THAT IS NOT WHO WE ARE. We have seen collectors seek to "screw" owners of pieces for thier own greed and financial gain. LET US NOT BE THOSE PEOPLE! Witness the "purchase" of a juncker RK from a known recipient, for about ONE FOURTH of the market value, simply due to personal greed and treachery. If you think this piece is worth more than $15K, make the man an offer. I have put forth an offer, which I feel, given due dilligence, is a good offer. I would like to have this piece. However, we must evaluate the kind consideration of the owner in allowing US, AS COLLECTORS, the ability to view his piece in an objective, and not predatory, environment. Have at it boys. I think it is good and don't give a damn what anyone else thinks. If you can offer the man more than $15K, please do so. Thanks for the sermon Art. I think it is worth $17k but it does not interest me or I would buy it immediately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
art wall Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 (edited) You are welcome for the "sermon", Don. Do appreciate, however, that my sermon was short and did not require any kneeling, so it was pretty painless. $17K? Well, there you have it, Mike. Perhaps you should hold out for someone offering $17K then. My opinion is that it is worth $15K, therefore that is all that I would (and am) offering. Again, I think that everyone would agree that the pricing on these (since they essentially NEVER come up for sale) is tough. I determined my "guess" based on other "guesses", as the only market value we know about is for regular ehrenbechers. The value of the "Thor" goblet would probably have a wide range of price estimates. I think that EVERYONE would agree that the $10K quote Mike was given was too low. I put up Mike's photos and disclosed that I made him an offer of $15K such that people could agree or disagree with it and Mike could make up his own mind about valuation based on these discussions. That way Mike does not end up getting the shaft for a nice and rare item. Edited July 10, 2012 by art wall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dond Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 It will go for what someone is willing to pay and not a penny more. Lucky for you I am not interested. He can either take your offer, try selling it himself for what he thinks it is worth, or throw it on one of the major auction houses and see what happens. With a minium of 15k on the table I doubt he will get the shaft....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
art wall Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 (edited) It will go for what someone is willing to pay and not a penny more. Lucky for you I am not interested. He can either take your offer, try selling it himself for what he thinks it is worth, or throw it on one of the major auction houses and see what happens. With a minium of 15k on the table I doubt he will get the shaft....... I don't think so either. It is a good problem to have a solid offer on the table. If Mike decides to hold on to the goblet and look for a better price (no hard feelings), I think that provides a minimum price point to have in mind. The auction houses would be another option I had not considered for Mike, but there you have to pay a 20% commission, which puts a damper on things. I do think it is surprising that no one else has offered an opinion on valuation, however. Anyone else? Don, if you are readily able and willing to plunk down $17K for items you want (I know you are not interested in this), exactly what items are you interested in and purchase for this price or more? You must have some wonderful pieces in your collection! Edited July 11, 2012 by art wall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VtwinVince Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 · Hidden by Chris Boonzaier, July 11, 2012 - No reason given Hidden by Chris Boonzaier, July 11, 2012 - No reason given Sermon? That's rich, coming from the ultimate pontificator from the 'other forum'. Hey, I thought you spent all your cash on a house? Link to comment
dond Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 (edited) Yes Art, my collection is pretty nice. Edited July 11, 2012 by dond Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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