Pakistani 8 meadal bar

[Laurence Strong]

Came in the mail today, along with my copy of the "Medals Catalouge of Pakistan". It's quite grungy but that seems to add to it.

It consists of:

1.PAKISTAN ARMY TAMGHA-E- DIFFAH KASHMIR CLASP 1948.

2.PAKISTAN ARMY TAMGHA-E- DIFFAH KASHMIR CLASP SIACHIN GLAIER

3.PAKISTAN ARMY TAMGHA-E- JANG 1965 (INDO-PAK WAR 1965) MEDAL

4.PAKISTAN ARMY TAMGHA-E- JANG 1971 (INDO-PAK WAR 1971) MEDAL

5.PAKISTAN ARMY 20 YEAR SERVICE MEDAL

6.PAKISTAN ARMY QUID AZAM BIRTH ANNIVERSARY MEDAL

7.PAKISTAN ARMY TAMGHA-E- JAMHURIAT 1988,MEDAL

8.PAKISTAN ARMY MEDAL FOR 50TH ANNIVERSARY OF PAKISTAN INDEPENDENCE.

I am curious about the timeline of the medals going from 1948 to 1997, is this feasable?

Comments are welcome

Thanks for looking

Larry

Edited March 3, 2012 by Laurence Strong

[Brian Wolfe]

Hi LArry,

I really like this group and have no questions as to it being authentic, though I know you wouldn't have bought it if there had been any doubt. Pakstan groups with grunge only adds to their value, in my opinion. With the number of Pakistan medals available, almost always unnamed, it is easy to throw together a fake group but ti imitate this aged look would be almost impossible.

As to the time frame of your group, a good question. The Medals Catalogue of Pakistan, while a pretty good reference, it is not an intense study of the subject. The last time I spoke with Ed Haynes must be a couple of years ago but at that time he was going to start a book of his own on the subject. You know what a indepth study of Indian Medals and Decorations he has produced so I expect the Pakistan Medals and Decorations work will be just as good. We may have to wait until that is ready for publication for many of our questions to be answered.

For now I think we have to look at your group and ask ourselves some questions. FIrst off the folks that deal in medals and medal groups are not stupid and I've found that most are quite honest. Anyone wanting to argue that can do so to themselves as I won't entertain such subjects here. If one was to fake a group why not simply add a named Independence Medal to the group or a named Sitara-i-Harb 1965 Star and thereby boosting the value a great deal. If a person was going to the trouble then make it worth the effort. Again I return to the condition. They all have the "look" of belonging together, the backing has the correct aged look and the attachment pin is nice and crooked. I say that as if I were going to fake a group I'd at least have the pin attached in a straight line. I also have to return to the value of these groups. While they are not exactly giving then away they are still not too expensive. Everything about this group rings authentic.

Congratulations on securing a great group for your collection.

Regards

Brian

[Laurence Strong]

Hello Brian

Sorry for the late response, putting in a grueling schedule at work. I posted it on SA Gongs and recieved some replies. The main issues there are the lack of the Republic medal and the 10 years long service. Also the lack of any medal for the 1965 or 1971 wars was noted as well.

These did not cost much, just over 30 CAD, so at worst the individual medals are worth more than I paid, however I plan on keeping it the way they are for the time being, it makes at the very least a decent representaion of what a Pakistani medal bar should look like.

Thanks for your response

later

Larry

Edited March 4, 2012 by Laurence Strong

[Brian Wolfe]

Hi Larry,

Inserseting. I suppost it would be quite redundant to say, "You could have fooled me".

SAGongs are the experts and I would never assume to think myself more informed than they, that was not sarcasm. With the addition of the "missing" medals this would have made it an eleven place group which I think you would have been told was not likely, just on the sheer size of it. With the availability of information had this been an Indian group it would have been an easier task to determine whether it was hala of not. Going by the general "look" of the item I'd still say it was an original, not that I'm saying the folks at SAGongs are wrong. Not at all, I am just sayng that if a like group came up in the future at the right price we'd both have what would be determined as a fake group.

Regards

Brian

[Gordon Craig]

Larry,

And  I hope that you don't mind me calling that.  Interesting bar and comments from SA Gongs.  The SA Gongs comments are somewhat confusing.   They site the absence of the 65 and 71 wars when they are clearly on the bar.  The absence of the Republic medal is curious though.  As  for the absence of the year Long Service, do the regulations call for them both to be worn at the same time?  Or is the fact that you have the 20 sufficient and the wearing of the 10 year Long Service is not necessary?  

I lived in India for two years and the absence of a medal on a medal bar does not really surprise me.  If you try to put western thought in India that really won't work.  Two entirely different worlds.

I'd also like to draw your attention to page 32 of the Medals Catalogue of Pakistan.  Specifically the 65 and 71 war medals. Someone has mixed up the pictures of the two medals and if you try to use that as a guide you would be totally confused.

Anyway, thanks for your thread.  It helped me learn a few things.

Regards,

Gordon

[Paul R]

"Period" mistakes are not uncommon, even in Western medal bars.  I think you have an awesome example Larry.

[Hashim.A.Khan]

Hey

If the recipient was awarded the war medal (tamgha e jang), i believe he should have been awarded the sitara e harb as well since they were awarded for the 65 and 71 war. Further more, the presence of 2 defence medals is really weird since usually the clasp is added on the existing medal.

The bar has the 20 years service medal, since the carrier spans at least 49 years, there should be a 10, 30, 35 and 40 years service medal. 

Lastly seems like this person had a long carrier (another red flag) since he has a clasp of 1948 and the last medal (independence day golden jubilee medal) was awarded in 1997. That just simply dosent add up since the retirement age is 60. With this persons minimum 49 years of service, the person had to be enlisted when he was 11.

In my opinion, this seems to be a fake, or at least altered 

 

Regards

Hashim 

Edited July 19, 2019 by Hashim.A.Khan