Jump to content

Nice grouping of an Oberstleutnant


Recommended Posts

Hello gentlemen,

this weekend I came in the posession of this grouping by trading. I did have to let go of some beauties but got this in return.

It is a grouping consisting of:

* Offiiziersschirmmütze Gebirgsartillerie with edelweiß;

* nice medal bar;

* 2 spangen;

* all the documents the former wearer still had (many stuff was taken by occupation forces); but nonetheless a very impressive document grouping with Urkunden, maps, letters, photographs etc. Also an extensive biography of his life and army career.

My question to you is: take a look at the medal bar. You see the Prussian Kriegsverdienst medal on the ribbon of the EKII klasse. This is also written down on documents and if you can see on the close up of a picture where the owner wears it in austrian style.

I have never seen this before: prussian war merit on EKII ribbon.

Can someone explain this to me?

By the way, if my comrade who traded this with me, reads this: thanks I will take care of the grouping.


Poulton Palmer

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nice...NICE? That is a great group! Medal bar, ribbon bar and documents as well. Thanks for showing it.

I would like to hear more. What and where was he in WWI?

I have a question. I can't see it very well, but in the lower right photo. What is the lead (Austrian) medal there?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here you see the bar worn in austrian way.

Also take a look at the breast eagle in combination with the collar (Austrian army???)

Yes, it's the Bundesheer uniform, short time after the Anschluss.

A small remark: On the right picture the first medal is a Militärverdinstkreutz 3. class. But i can't see in the medal bar, nor on the later photos.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Could you please show where the Prussian medal is mentioned in the papers? I'd love to read myself.

He's wearing the Militär-Ehrenzeichen 2nd class, which was an EM and NCO award to Prussians/Germans in the wars of 1864, 1866 and the later colonial conflicts. I'm not aware it was awarded in WW1.

The Prussian standard awards for KuK military are the EKs for officers and the Kriegerverdienstmedaille for EMs and NCOs. While the MEZ looks the same, its seize is about half(!) of it.

Was he an officer all over WW1, or did he start as an NCO ???

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Good evening gentlemen,

The officer in question is named: Herr josef FICK.

I have got quite a lot of papers from him but didn't have the time yet to read them extensively.

For now I will post a few pictures which will hopefully clarify a few questions.

greetings, poulton.

the first picture is a picture of an old(er) picture which came with the grouping.

The second one is a picture of a page which Herr Fick wrote himself (and signed each page) about his awards (for most of them I have Urkunden). This page is part of a 7 page report he himself wrote about his career etc.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi gentlemen,

No reactions yet about the Prussian war merit medal on the EKII ribbon. I still don't understand this.

Here in short the war adventures of Herr Fick:

1. From Mobilmachung till end of november 1915: Batterieoffizier, Beobachter and Aufklärer with the 30,5 cm Mortar battery 8 off the Heavy art rgt 7:

* Until middle of feb 1915: westfront, belagerung off Namur, Maubeuge, Antwerp, Stellungskämpfe in Flandern (ypres, Langemark etc);

* until middle of april 1915: ostfront, battle of Ossowiec in northern russ. Poland in the 8 german army;

* mai until september 1915: ostfront, attack in galizien and russ. poland (breakthrough at Gorlice, tarnow, Jaroslau, reconquer of Przemysl and lemberg, fighting at lublin till brest-litowsk in the 11th german army);

* till nov 1915: ostfront, fighting nordostlich Brody in the 2. austrian army.

2. end november 1915 till april 1916: instruktionsoffizier at the ersatz abteilung of the heavy art rgt 7 in Vienna;

3. April 1916 until 1 okt 1916: batterie offizier, beobachter and aufklärer, later first offizier and selbst. Halbbatteriekommandant at the 30,5 cm mortar battery 11 (later nr 6) of the heavy art rgt 7 at the italian front:

* mai until middle sept 1916: Offensive against italy: etschtal, breakthrough at Rovereto, attack fighting at Korny zugna, Campoluzzo, arsiero, Pryafora, Novegno plateau, Passubio;

* 18/9/1916 - 14/10/1916: septmeberkämpfe in Fleimstal (Cauriol etc) then with 2 halbbattery at the Pustertalfront, fighting at Scluderbach and ruffredo, and fighting in Marmolatarea (fassatal);

* 15/10/1916 - 8/11/1916: Fighting in the Fleimstal (Cauriol, Cardinal, Busa Alta etc);

* 9/11/1916 - 15/2/1917: fighting and trenchwarfare at the high ground of the 7 gemeinden under command of the 6 and 22 Inf div;

* 20/2/1917 - 5/6/1917: with the 1 halbbattery fighting and trenchwarfare in area Borcola and Passubio etc;

* 8/6/1917 - 1/8/1917: defense of italian July iffensive at the 7 gemeinden and trenchwarfare at the spot;

* 3/8/1917 - 10/10/1917: with the 2 halbbattery: trenchwarfare in area Borcola (Monte Majo, Passubio etc)

* 20/10/1917 - 21/04/1918: Isonzo offensive: breakthrough at Flitsch, attack at the Neveasaddle, and attack fighting between Piave and Brenta (monte Pertica, asolone, caprile etc, finally trenchwarfare, both sides of the Brenta);

* 22/4/1918 - 1/10/1918: Trenchwarfare, than juni offensive and after that defensive battles on the high ground of the 7 gemeinden (col del rosso, monte di Valbella etc)

* 3-10/1918 - 15/10/1918: teacher in Säbelchargenkurs Medea nearby Cormons

* 16/10/1918 - 1/11/1918: (Zusammenbruch) Kommandant of the positions art gruppe "Brian" in the area Caorle at the Piave. trenchwarfare and defensive fighting at the Italian breakthrough.

I stop now. Herr Fick continued his military career also in WWII. maybe I will tell you later if interested.


poulton palmer

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks! He wasn't an officer for the 1st year of WW1, so I assume he received the Prussian Kriegerverdienstmedaille in this time. As an officer, he should have received the EK2.

My personal assumption: he later bought a Zweitstück (wearers copy - seems to be one on the bar) of the Prussian Militär-Ehrenzeichen 2nd class to replace the tiny Kriegerverdienstmedaille.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for the input Sascha,

I think I finally get it now:

Herr Fick received the Kriegsverdienstmedaille 2. Klasse in Silber "Kriegs Verdienst" (see first picture of back).

Normally, according to Detlev Niemann this type only existst in a 25 mm medal. The one on the Spange is a 39 mm medal. (see second picture out of the book of DN). So Herr Fick must have upgraded it himself by buying a replacement as you assume. Ok, this sounds plausible to me, only I ask myself:

* why should an officer of this status do this? He has medals and status enough? This Kriegsverdienstmedaille 2. Klasse in Silber "Kriegs Verdienst" in this 39 mm versionlooks very much like the kriegsverdienstmedaille 1. Klasse in Silber (only difference is the back I think, reading "Krieger Verdienst". This seems a little bit betrügerisch to me (hope you understand what I mean).

Third picture also out of DN book: a picture of a Spange with also a Kriegsverdienstmedal in it.

Hope I get feedback.


Poulton Palmer

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You're confusing three totally different medals. Niemann refers to the Kriegerverdienstmedaille of the Reich only, a four classed medal for black soldiers in the colonies.

The Prussian medal an Austrian EM or NCO would have received in WW1 is the Prussian(!) Kriegerverdienstmedaille, which looks the same like the lowest class of the medals in Niemann catalogue. But: one is a one-classed Prussian award, the other one the lowest grade of a four classed award by the Reich.

The big medal with "WR" cypher is the Prussian Militär-Ehrenzeichen 2nd class. Something totally different, a Prussia award awarded in the wars of 1864 and 1866, and to the white soldiers fighting in the colonies.

Ficker seems top wear the last one to replace/upgrade his Prussian Kriegerverdienstmedaille.

Would someone please chime in, if I'm wrong in anything?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree with sashaw, in ww1 the kuk nco have received only the little kriegerverdienstmed.

On the beginning of the war some of the first kuk soldiers received with the golden bravery medal also a iron cross second class from the german,

but after a order of the war ministery all the iron cross were changed to kriegerverdienstmed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Blog Comments

    • Sounds great other than the Orange & Mango squash only because I prefer cran-pomegranate juice.
    • "(...) disgusting herbal concoction (...)" I took note of this description, to enrich my otherwise limited, English "Wortschatz"...
    • At work the standard indian tea such as PG tips is referred to as chimp tea. This goes back to the days when we had a Spanish girl working for us whose command of the English language was extremely limited. One lunch she said she was going to the shop could she get anything. I asked if she could get a pack of tea bags. She returned with some disgusting herbal concoction. I tried to explain what was required but without success. I then remembered PG tips had a picture of a chimpanzee on the packe
    • When I read Lapsang Souchong i decided to post something about these Tea . Many years ago I dont  know about Lapsang until I read James Michener book Centennial and the description of the savour of the Lapasang as a mix of tar and salt & smoked made me proof . It was exact ! and i liked it since then .
    • I have been known to drink Lapsang Souchong and Tea, Earl Grey, Hot... both "without pollutants". I normally have one mug of coffee in the morning, then spend the rest of the day drinking Orange & Mango squash (by the pint). Then evening comes and it's a pint, followed by red wine with dinner and sometimes a drop of Laphroaig afterwards.
  • Create New...