Striped Tigers and their Marks

[JapanX]

Same D4 digital mark (9I) was found on 8^th class Tiger which under its screw has S1 seal mark ...

Here it is

[JapanX]

A gallery of "seal" marks

[JapanX]

A gallery of "digital" marks

[JapanX]

And then of course there are unmarked Tigers.

Very interesting specimen.

6^th class.

Obverse

[JapanX]

Reverse

[JapanX]

One question is still opened – the question about the real meaning of these marks …

If “seal marks” are really workshops “signatures”, then what is the meaning of these “digital” marks?

Are these dates?

Well, sometimes they interpret D1 and D2 marks as “July 1923”.

The reasons for this interpretation are obvious.

But what about D4 mark?

How we could translate it into date?

Another hypotheses state that “digital” marks are actually silver hallmarks…

Hmmmmm … I don’t know about that…

And what do you think?

Regards,

Nick

Edited April 28, 2012 by JapanX

[drclaw]

Hey Nick, a very interesting thread. Thanks for taking the time to post these up as it's something that has intrigued me too.

Warlord era soldiers had similar marks (a strange combination of Roman and Hindu-Arabic numerals) on their uniforms to denote their units.

If we go by the hypothesis that the digital marks are numbers or dates, the D4 mark could mean September ("9") of the First ("I") Year of the Republic, i.e. September 1912.

Alternatively, it could also mean the Ninth Year of the Republic, First Month.

We would need more info on the frequency with which these combinations occur. I have come across 7XII a few times (or we are looking at the same examples) and it would seem odd that so many Striped Tigers just so happened to have been made at that particular date.

Gavin

[JapanX]

If we go by the hypothesis that the digital marks are numbers or dates, the D4 mark could mean September ("9") of the First ("I") Year of the Republic, i.e. September 1912.

Alternatively, it could also mean the Ninth Year of the Republic, First Month.

So they made first Tigers inside 8-month period?

Well, maybe...

Letter and number changed places in case of D3.

This is very strange ...

And I have serious doubts that number in D2 mark is actually 7

We would need more info on the frequency with which these combinations occur. I have come across 7XII a few times (or we are looking at the same examples) and it would seem odd that so many Striped Tigers just so happened to have been made at that particular date.

You see - the most frequent mark of them all is simply S1

From my experience combination S1/D1 dominates others.

Second place holds S2/D2 combination.

... it would seem odd that so many Striped Tigers just so happened to have been made at that particular date.

You get that right

And what about Tigers without digital mark (or without any marks at all!)?

Why they don't have it?

Cheers,

Nick

P.S. Alternatively digital marks could be

a) personal marks of masters

b) quality control marks

Edited April 29, 2012 by JapanX

[JapanX]

We would need more info on the frequency with which these combinations occur....

And another thought.

If these digital marks are indeed time indicators, then why we don't obverse them separately (i.e. without S marks)?

This is really strange ...

[JapanX]

Hmmm…

No comments …

Looks like this topic is not so hot Gavin

Anyway, how we can test if digital mark is indeed a simple date marker?

I think the answer is quite obvious – we find the group with known date of issue and check if this date coincides with reverse digital mark interpretation (i.e. its interpretations as date mark).

Here comes the first such group with the order of Striped Tiger.

The tiger (we saw this specimen with S2/D2 marks earlier)

[JapanX]

The box

[JapanX]

This 5^th class tiger (ribbon is incorrect later replacement) was awarded to Temporary Captain Alexander Potter Storrie on February 17, 1920 for his service in Labour Corps during WW I.

Rest of the group

[JapanX]

As we know China declared war on Germany on the May 14^th, 1917, shortly after the USA entered the war, but did not take any significant part in the war (for obvious reasons). However, a large number of Chinese served with the so-called Chinese Labour Corps and Royal Army Medical Corps (RAMC). Basically they were recruited by the British government and sent to France to support troops by carrying out manual labour tasks. As a result some of these British officers from these two Corps, received the Order of the Striped Tiger. Alexander Potter Storrie was one of these officers.

[JapanX]

Official report about bestowal was published in Supplement to the London Gazette, 17 February, 1920, pp. 1935-1937.

see http://www.london-ga...upplements/1935

Inside this long list we can find the name of our hero (p. 1937, right column, 6 from the top)

see http://www.london-ga...upplements/1937

[JapanX]

Close examination of this list of recipients …

[JapanX]

2

[JapanX]

3

[JapanX]

… allows us to draw the following conclusion about “military status” of five higher classes of Striped Tiger

1^st Class was intended for Field Marshals or Generals

2^nd Class and 3^rd Class were for Colonels and Lieut.-Colonel

4^th Class for Major’s and Captains’

5^th Class for Lieutenants

Edited May 5, 2012 by JapanX

[JapanX]

Well, if this Tiger was indeed issued for Alexander Potter Storrie (and I believe it really was), then

a) Chinese Republic had time machine to reward this man in 1920 with the order made in July, 1923.

b) D2 mark couldn’t be interpreted as July, 1923

Only one of these two statements could be true

[JapanX]

Our next hero wasn’t Officer – he was Dr. and Reverend and was awarded for his work as chaplain to the Labour Corps in France during WW I. His name was Frederick O'Neill. Dr O'Neill, a native of Dungannon, County Tyrone, was 27 when he was sent by the Irish Presbyterian Church to Manchuria in north-east China in 1897.

In 1917 Dr O’Neill left China and traveled to France when the Allies shipped thousands of Chinese laborers to the Western Front to provide support services to British and French troops. He was attached by the YMCA (Young Men's Christian Association) to the Chinese Labour Corps. He apparently served as a chaplain to the Chinese serving in the trenches. After the war, he got for this 5^th class of the Order of Striped Tiger.

[JapanX]

Dr. O'Neill with his wife

[JapanX]

Obverse of the Dr. O'Neill Tiger

[JapanX]

Reverse (again S2/D2 marks combination)

[JapanX]

Here you can see his grandson Mark O’Neill with this order (right before selling it at an auction)

[JapanX]

Grandson has written the following note for the Auction house: “My grandfather FWS O’Neill, went to Manchuria in 1897 as a missionary of the Irish Presbyterian Church, at the age 27. In 1900 he could speak fluent Chinese and was not molested during the Boxer Rising, which aimed at expelling foreign influence. His house was wrecked but later a Chinese dictionary was returned to him. Again in 1904 he assumed Chinese dress (blue cotton), during the Russo-Japanese war. At one stage he was condemned to death by the Russians. He had blue eyes and did not expect to pass as Chinese. In 1917 he was attached by the YMCA to the Chinese Labour Corps in France and was awarded the Order of the Striped Tiger on his return to China. From 1928 to 1931 he lived through the taking over of Manchuria by the Japanese and was allowed to continue his work until 1941, when he and his wife were interned in Kobe. They came home in 1942 in an exchange of diplomatic and religious prisoners. He died in 1952 at the age of 82. FWS O’Neill was based in Fakumen, a town of about 15,000 people among foothills about two days walk from Mukden, the chief city of Manchuria, and the same from the Mongolian (indeterminate) frontier. He toured an area about equal to N Ireland taking about a month on foot for each journey. As far as I know the school and church he established in Fakumen still exist and he is still remembered in the area”