JapanX Posted July 11, 2012 Posted July 11, 2012 (edited) So, are the bars you are showing; 1) period assemblies, 2) outright fake/modern assemblies or 3) maybe period or maybe modern assemblies, hard to tell? Zero-risk variant will be 3) maybe period or maybe modern assemblies, hard to tell? Well first two bars (post #10 and post # 16) look pretty well This last medal bar seems too good to be true. The three major merit awards, a 1914 (or 1914-20) War Medal, a lot of pre-ww1 medals and finally a Victory as well. Quite a tight group! Indeed! Although orders came from right period of time, all ribbons have quite uniform wear and medals have (more or less) homogeneous patina. The real eccentric is the last but one award. There is a probability that someone took an original group and stuffed it with rarities. Edited July 11, 2012 by JapanX
Claudius Posted July 11, 2012 Posted July 11, 2012 Zero-risk variant will be 3) maybe period or maybe modern assemblies, hard to tell? Well first two bars (post #10 and post # 16) look pretty well Indeed! Although orders came from right period of time, all ribbons have quite uniform war and medals have (more or less) homogeneous patina. The real eccentric is the last but one award. There is a probability that someone took an original group and stuffed it with rarities. Thanks. Very interesting.
RobW Posted July 13, 2012 Author Posted July 13, 2012 Hello JapanX, Thanks for the pics. They are a good reference. Regards, Rob
JapanX Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 2) highly unrealistic set of medals for one man (in case of private - I think simply impossible) Allow me to illustrate Take a look at General Tessan Nagata
JapanX Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 Our bar has 9 (!!!) medals after two orders (in lower classes!!!) ... Not very realistic?! More likely impossible Regards, Nick
Aurora Posted July 18, 2012 Posted July 18, 2012 I am reading these wonderful posts. An excellent topic. As you know guys Japanese orders and medals are not like Soviet ones. Nick is an expert and his deductions suggest to me there is no way to certify some awards as a "group". All is based on our "sensibility" ( to be more precise on Nick' sensibility and deductions). If I am right I can conclude there isn't a "unique price" because you can't verify if all awards were awarded to the same person. You can only sum their "separated prices". I can have 6/7/8/9 documents issued for the same person but I will always have the same problem. How can I demonstrate that all medals are from the same person? Could it demonstrate it is a nonsense call Japanese medals "group"? Am I wrong ? Perhaps you will see me as a devil's advocate but these "bad questions" can improve our knowledge and sensibility. Best regards, Aurora
JapanX Posted July 19, 2012 Posted July 19, 2012 Nick is an expert ... Exaggeration How can I demonstrate that all medals are from the same person? By buying directly from family... How can I demonstrate that all medals are from the same person? Could it demonstrate it is a nonsense call Japanese medals "group"? Photo of the cavalier! Usually it is very helpful. Especially when the bar has some irregularities or distinctions (ribbon folds, incorrect sequence of awards, etc...) + Medals "fitting-in". Medals that were in the bar for 70+ years should have something in common + General "realism" of the bar Of course professional could make very realistically looking bar (by using original (very simple one) as base). Fortunately a) not very much professionals around b) many of them are too damn lazy c) creation of high quality fake japanese bar is not very profitable business (if it's not a Togo bar of course ) Regards, Nick
Aurora Posted July 19, 2012 Posted July 19, 2012 Japanese awards were/are minted with care. Groups are wonderful but they are not able to give me the same feelings I have with Soviet ones. Researches are amazing. I have seen your other topic ( "Four Fours"). As usual I have "bad questions"... but I think I need them to focus on my passion. I am not off-topic. I am only trying to explain my thoughts. You can do with Japanese awards what you can do with Soviet ones (without serial numbers). If I buy a booklet with 4 BM (all unnumbered) I can add 4 medals and I will have a group (yes, it is very rare to see a booklet with 4 BM without serial numbers but I think it is not impossible). I, as collector, can show a group but I know I have added these medals. With serial numbered medals/orders "I feel" their stories, I have in my hands a medal that saw that events... no one have the same medal. For example 2 numbered BM will not be the same because they have different stories to tell... This is a "problem" for European/ Japanese awards ( some of them - European ones - were engraved from the mint to leave a trace of history...) Perhaps I have a Soviet mind... Regards, Aurora
JapanX Posted July 19, 2012 Posted July 19, 2012 This is a "problem" for European/ Japanese awards ... We like them spicy Perhaps I have a Soviet mind...
JapanX Posted July 30, 2012 Posted July 30, 2012 Another interesting and authentic (i.e. I think it is authentic ) bar "with threads"
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