A rare old bird ! Bavarian Airgunners badge (issue type)

[Claudius]

I too have looked closely at the larger photos posted by Alex. I find them a great improvement, but still too out of focus or with too much glare for me to get a good look.

Nevertheless I have tried to look at the rivets, the crown, the eagle and the bow and compare them to the examples found in Previtera's latest book as well as recalling his most notable findings about these badges.

While I still can’t see the badge well enough to make up my mind, I have standing issues with; 1) the poorly detailed area where the eagle’s right foot should be, 2) on the reverse, the rough trimming around the edge of the badge and 3) the back plates’ poor bevel edge -near the crown.

Additionally I am amazed by the green halo verdigris around the eagle and wreath whose spread is conveniently halted by the greater flat areas where a buffer’s wheel could reach it.

These features are not typically seen on period badges.

I understand that this piece presumably endured a lot of wear-and-tear and as a die-pressed item it would be particularly susceptible to damage, but this badge seems to have received even more abuse that ordinary. Including, and most remarkably, an attachment hook that wasn’t just pulled open under stress, it actually twisted, counter-clockwise. I don’t know how that would occur through natural wear.

Nevertheless, lastly, I would have to say that I think this badge needs to be put in the hands (literary) of some badge collectors who have held many, many of these badges before.

[arrestanddevelopment]

further pics

Edited September 1, 2012 by arrestanddevelopment

[arrestanddevelopment]

When i aquired the badge,the crown was crushed in at an angle the,pin was bent and angled and the body of the badge slightly crushed.

The badge was found in a junk box together with other period junk ....and the seller was not aware exactly what it was as they do not sell militaria.

It was my choice to carefuly re shape the crown and straightened the pin and the body of the badge,without damaging it further .Upon inspection the revits would have been originally flush with the piece,but due to the badge being buckled,see in picture where the main badge is comming away from the oval disk thgis has raised and dipped slightly . The eagles foot in obscured by old gunk but yes the design is there ...,much of the badge is covered in verdigris ,but i prefere not to clean it .I am happy with this badge and i cannot fault it when comparing it ,construction or aging ...iam happy its an a Original Bavarian Airgunners badge ,...would be nice to pin down 100% the maker .....iam still leaning towards it being a 1918 issue,rather than post war ...but then thats just my opinion,and as such am very happy its in my collection of WW1 aviation badges.....looking forward to further discussion and debate regarding this ..

here are some better pics !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

all the best

steve

Edited September 1, 2012 by arrestanddevelopment

[arrestanddevelopment]

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[arrestanddevelopment]

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[arrestanddevelopment]

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[arrestanddevelopment]

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[arrestanddevelopment]

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[arrestanddevelopment]

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[dond]

Perhaps its a conversion from a pilot's badge. Can we match the wreath to a known maker?

[arrestanddevelopment]

Reading through "Imerial Sky" by Stephen Previtera he details an Imerial flyers badge of unknown maker, but suspected to be by Wilhelm Deumer.

Although similiar to Juncker dies used are different under close inspection. The ribbon has a boxed crimped design more detailed than Juncker,also to the upper ribbon strand on the right,is a prominent eye shaped hollow which does not appear on Juncker flight badges of WW1.

So as was correctly pointed out it is not a Juncker badge. rather i believe it is a period made WW1 Bavarian Airgunners badge by the suspected maker Deumer.

My evidence !!

The die design of the ribbon matches ,though my badge is more worn in parts ,those details specified by the author match my badge .

Also construction is typically period .

All the best

Steve

Edited September 2, 2012 by arrestanddevelopment

[jaba1914]

After examination the badge with all Juncker badges from my collection and pictures of other badges i still can not make a final decission. IMHO it is the wrong way to condemn. It neds further examination on the badge. Pictures are not enough.

The position of the leafs on both sides of the badge are different to known Juncker badges, what deduce it is not from the same stamp. Other characteristics are identical to Juncker like the construction and the eagle. Juncker is the only known maker who produced stamped, thre part construction badges like this.

Regards

Alex

[Ferg1]

The owner Steve has sent me some better clear shots of the badge. The wreath is certainly not Juncker but the eagle centre device appears to be of that maker although a little ' soft ' in strike detail.That is not always a point of concern as the strike pressures do from badge to badge. To me it looks like a marriage of parts albeit period.Certainly the the crown has been changed to a Bavarian from the usual ,this can be seen from the leaves as they disappear under the crown instead of ending at the base. The wreath is of a type normally seen on retired pilot badges by an unknown maker,theleaves are characteristically ' veiny' as opposed to Junckers ' pimpled' . I have only seen this wreath form in retired badges.The hardware(pin/catch/hinge) seems to fall in line with Juncker as does the three rivit construction but I cannot see whether the reverse of the centre plate bends over into the crown well as Juncker do. The eagle seems to be very tight against the centre plate ,I cannot see any gaps between eagle and plate as is usual to see on these.My feelings are the badge could be 'possible' ,the theory being that the badge was made up by an unknown makerthat aquired the centre detail from Juncker as they may not have produced that component themselves,same applies to the hardware either from Juncker or supplied from the same supplier of pins ,hinges etc.. as Juncker.I would like to have the badge in hand to check my ideas but I guess that is not an option. Ferg

[arrestanddevelopment]

Thanks Ferg for that interesting anaylis.

Just for information the oval plate does curve into the crown well ,the same as a Juncker airgunners badge. and the eagle is seperate from the plate as i cleaned away encrusted dirt/verdigris and old polish from around the eragle which uncovered a slight gap ;where the badge had buckled.

...as i stated iam exstactic to have this gem in my aviation collection as really dont think i will ever get another !!

All the best

Steve