blauer_max Posted December 17, 2012 Author Share Posted December 17, 2012 Bronze gilt, with gold plating. High quality enamel work, correct Eagle heads with "Crowns". Size about 15.4 mm x 15.4 mm. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VtwinVince Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 Thanks, that is a real stunner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W McSwiggan Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 Bronze gilt, with gold plating. High quality enamel work, correct Eagle heads with "Crowns". Size about 15.4 mm x 15.4 mm. Cheers Whoa! PlM Eagles are not crowned! Johanniter yes - PlM no. Not sure what is going on with this chain but I'm concerned. Bogus order of precedence, strange selection of awards, non-matching attaching loops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blauer_max Posted December 18, 2012 Author Share Posted December 18, 2012 Are you telling me I have a faked PLM miniature? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blauer_max Posted December 18, 2012 Author Share Posted December 18, 2012 Im not a master in the subject of imperial orders, but I would strongly say that this PLM is original, what ever of the chain. The E-medals version is very similar to the one that i have, size is right, high quality enamels, clearly visible text, eagles are indeed Crowned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VtwinVince Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 We don't exactly see a lot of genuine PLM minis, so expertise may be lacking. I know I'm not conversant with these. Judging the chain on its' own merits, the combo does seem a little odd, as the Germans generally wore all their decorations on a chain, since they were light, unlike on a regular Schnalle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blauer_max Posted December 18, 2012 Author Share Posted December 18, 2012 If you check the quality on the chain, note that all orders are about 15 mm x 15 mm (excluding crowns and swords), but you can actually read what is written on them. The Artwork is stunning, not even in the same division as copys.... I would not be to fast to judge the chain, its probably hard to find out the owner, but the chain and each of the medals on it. Is indeed originals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W McSwiggan Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 I do not specialize in the medals - rather the information hence I would ask one more expert than I to comment. It is my belief that the PlM eagles were not crowned. It is possible that whoever created the mini-PlM did so with crowned eagles I suppose. Again - I'm no expert but I suspect that this chain was "assembled" not original. The components may all be original & vintage while the assembly is not. Consulting with others - PlM minis are normally on bows - not chains. This is because the clothing normally worn with chains would call for the wear of the cross at the throat. Less formal wear normally would have the cross alone on a bow as you have shown. I suspect that your cross was originally on a bow. Again - just my guesses - lets see what others think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blauer_max Posted December 18, 2012 Author Share Posted December 18, 2012 (edited) http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/showthread.php?t=438819&highlight=PlM+miniature&page=2 Here is a thread about the very same chain. Let's face it, it was probably not an original set, its possible to buy just the Godet chains without any medals on it from André Hüsken for example. Barry on E-medals tells me by e-mail: This is indeed a "Cheap fake". Allthough he has sold an identical PlM-mini made by Godet with a large PlM (the latest picture here in the thread). Some guy named Marshall/Biro says on Wehrmacht Awards forum about this very chain: " In all respects this chain is a beauty.. and the mini PLM is exactly what I would expect to see. Very very nice." Im feeling very confused indeed, the PlM is what I've learned that the Godet species looks like. Dark blue enamel, eagles with longer heads (or "crowns") than the spanish fakes. the text is bolder and very clear even though that the size of the damn thing is just over 15 mm x 15 mm. Real godet pieces bellow, with the differences. Spanish copy below. Notice the faint colour, the short eagle heads. And the badly cast wings on the eagles. The cross is also more Narrow and the size about 22 mm. Text is thin and badly cast. small bubbles in the enamel, also not a smooth surface. Edited December 18, 2012 by blauer_max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VtwinVince Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 Coincidentally, a Kette has just been shown over at SDA with a genuine PLM mini on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saschaw Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 The minis are good, without a doubt; Biro knows what he's talking about. eMedals' comment confuses me, too, but not in regards to your plm miniature... The combination is odd and I'm honestly not sure if it's played with or not, but would definitely leave it as is! It would be a shame to destroy a maybe-good plm winner's chain. Hope you didn't and won't lose it's joy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W McSwiggan Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 In fairness, I’ve just done some follow up reading of Previtera. While it is clear that the full sized, issue medals of the Pour le Mérite had eagles with no crowns with the single exception of an unknown maker in the 1800s, it was common to find minis on bows made by Godet with crowned eagles. Normally the crowned eagles were part of the grand cross insignia (5 awards) and this mini is clearly not a grand cross. So is it real or not – I have no idea! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blauer_max Posted December 19, 2012 Author Share Posted December 19, 2012 Thanks Sascha! I cant understand E-medals comment at all, since they sold an identical Godet PlM mini with a larger one. It was like I felt all the time, just one person told me its a Fake and its Barry on E-medals. The PlM is an original. McSwiggan: Well I don't know if there is just a slang for the longer heads, but as you say the large sized Pour le merites was not Crowned in that way. But check the pictures of mine, the two ones and the one from E-medals and compare it to the Spanish fake in the post above and you will see what I mean with "crowns". VtwinVince what do you mean with SDA? Best regards Dennis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VtwinVince Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 Dennis, it's the German website, Sammlergemeinschaft deutscher Auszeichnungen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blauer_max Posted December 19, 2012 Author Share Posted December 19, 2012 Dennis, it's the German website, Sammlergemeinschaft deutscher Auszeichnungen. Link to the object? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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