Imperial Belt Buckles

[Steve K.]

**** Attn: Note from ChrisB.... I have caused CHAOS! but for a reason..... we had a few dozen long lost threads about buckles which I have now merged. Down side is, sometimes it is not obvious to see which text goes with which buckle... but feel free to post questions... there were some really nice buckles posted and I decided it was worth the Chaos to not loose sight of those threads completely, thanks :-) Chris ****

Can anyone tell me who may have worn this buckle and its time of use? Leather is stamped in three lines:

BERNH. HAARMAN.....
METALLWARENEA.....
LUDENSCH......

umlauts over the 'U' in the last line, naturally..

I'm not a buckle maven, so any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Steve

[Guest Rick Research]

That is the Reichsheer pattern worn during the Weimar Republic by the 100,000 Man Army.

[David Gregory]

Steve,

That looks like a standard Reichswehr buckle as used until the early to mid thirties, when it was replaced by the version with the bent cross.

David

[Steve K.]

Rick and David

Thank you for the quick replies, and the information.

Kindest Regards

Steve

[buellmeister]

Gentlemen,

I wanted to show you all this Buckle I've had for many years. It looks like an earlier model than most I've encountered that were issued during World War One. The smaller belt rest and the fact that it is a coated brass leans me to the assumption it's an earlier model. Has anyone seen this maker mark either? I thank you in advance for any information you can provide me.

regards,

Joel

[buellmeister]

Reverse.

[buellmeister]

close-up of the maker mark.

[Daniel Murphy]

I have never seen a nickel plated buckle like that. I am assuming the center is nickel silver since there is a lot of wear and no brass showing through. There are two possibilities here from my point of view. First, an NCO in a pioneer or guard regiment (with nickel buttons, helmet fittings etc. ) who purchased his own belt and buckle and had the buckle nickle plated so it would match everything else. Second, it was done as a war souvenir by the doughboy who brought it back ( fairly common, it was done with guns etc.) and the wear to the plating is from 90 years of being handled, played with, misused etc. I prefer what is behind door number one myself. It looks to have been on a belt for many years, did you get it also? Since the marking is so poorly stamped, I would say it is the owners initials from scenario #1. The fist pattern 1895 buckles had a christian cross with rays on the crown until about 1900, then the pattern illustrated was used until 1915 when the brass buckles were no longer made.

Dan Murphy

Edited January 27, 2006 by Daniel Murphy

[buellmeister]

Dan, Thank you for your reply. As far as the belt goes for this piece it is long gone and obscurred by History. I bought this buckle at an antique market in the early eighties. I thank you for giving me the possible scenarios and the proper timeline in which buckles like this were worn and "customized."

Thanks again Dan.

Regards,

Joel

[Kurt Donch]

Hi,

As per the 1901 "Bekleidung und Ausr?stung der Preussischen Feuerwehren" this buckle is for the Berlin fire brigade. Very nice!

Regards, Kurt

[Deruelle]

hi everybody,

Please find my new treasure.

Regards

Christophe

[Deruelle]

The reverse

[Deruelle]

Any comments are welcome. If someone has got a Feldbinde with this buckle, it is possible to show it to us.

Regards

Christophe

[Chip]

Christophe,

Wouldn't the Th?ringen officer's take the same brocaid belt as Baden and Oldenburg officers?

Chip

[Deruelle]

Hi Chip, it seems to be the case. But I've never seen one before. I have got one Baden Feldbinde in my collection.

Regards

Christophe

[Daniel Murphy]

Christophe,

That is one very nice and very rare buckle. I have never seen one in the flesh with this cypher before. With the small number of men and even fewer numbers of officers supplied by this duchy, I would not imagine many are remaining. Especially in this condition.

Dan Murphy

[lach470]

Thought I would show you guys my oldest buckle. She's not mint...but she's certainly my oldest buckle: 1895 50mm model with stepped side. Lots of character on this one but no markings.

I love the big roundel!

Cheers...

Rob

[attachmentid=50599]

[attachmentid=50600]

[lach470]

[attachmentid=50601]

[attachmentid=50602]

[Kev in Deva]

Hallo lach470

Nice buckles, I have one in my possesion that I cant identify maybe you could take a look? Its Navy but from which European Country I have no idea, I found it here in Romania, but rule out it being Romanian Navy as there is no Royal Cypher!

If anyone can Identify it I would be very obliged, thank you,

Kevin in Deva, Transylvania, Romania

Edited August 19, 2006 by Kev in Deva

[lach470]

Hi! Nice buckle....unfortunately...I don't recognize it. That being the case, I can at least tell you that it isn't German.

Sorry I can't be of any more help. Good luck with it and let us know if you find out where it comes from.

As an addendum to my post on the 1895 buckle: I made a mistake!!! The above pictured buckle is not 1895...it's older (1880). The 1895 buckle is pictured below - which was used up to about 1916 when these brass buckles were then made of steel instead.

That being the case, the first buckle showed is actually older - it's the 1880 pattern (used up to 1895).

Cheers!

Rob

ps....here's the 1895 pattern:

[attachmentid=50616]

[lach470]

[attachmentid=50617]

[Daniel Murphy]

My understanding is that the first older buckle you show is the 1847 pattern. I am not aware of a 1880 pattern buckle. Great buckles BTW.

Dan Murphy

[Daniel Murphy]

Here is a belt and buckle I picked up some years ago. It is of the type used by indigenous German Colonial Troops such as Askaris. The buckle measures 50mm, but does not have the cut out sides of the 1847. The belt itself measures 45mm and has a replaced 1847 style catch. The buckle has no provision for a roundel and never had one.

Dan Murphy

Edited August 19, 2006 by Daniel Murphy

[Daniel Murphy]

Here the buckle is shown latched, notice the width of the catch.

[Daniel Murphy]

Reverse of the buckle. Notice the large head on the rivet holding the prongs and the fact that the head is on the bottom. Standard practice on most Imperial German buckles is to have the rivet head on the top edge (as worn)of the buckle. From the width of the prongs on this buckle it was made for a 50mm belt. The prongs had to be bent inward to accomodate the narrower holes on the 45mm belt. So we have a 45mm brown belt with a 50mm size replaced catch. Then this belt has been fitted to this 50mm buckle. This is typical of the hard use and abuse that equipment normally sustained when issued to local troops.

Dan Murphy

Edited August 19, 2006 by Daniel Murphy