Rare Trench gun... German?

[Chris Boonzaier]

I guess this is 37MM ?

[IrishGunner]

Caliber looks to be about 37mm.

Similar to photos at this link of rounds for the Austro-Hungarian 37mm Infanteriegeschütz M15. The guns are different though.

http://www.landships.freeservers.com/37mm_infanteriegeschutz_m15.htm

[Chip]

With those rounded noses, I suspect that ammo is high explosive. Tracers and armor piercing are more tapered/pointed. I have a somewhat similar French round.

Chip

[Chris Boonzaier]

Hi,

I must admit, it is the first time i have seen one of these, i always thought they had those round cylanders with 6 rounds like you see in old french photos...

[ccj]

I've never seen such a weapon. I assume from the photo that its an infantryman's weapon.

[The Prussian]

Of course, it´s a 37mm Grabenkanone by Krupp.

Chris. Is the photo dated or stamped? Maybe I could find out the unit.

Edited February 4, 2013 by The Prussian

[The Prussian]

Addition:

I think, the photo might have been taken in 1916. Equipped with those guns were the "Infanterie-Geschütz-Batterien". Set up in may 1916, one battery had six 3,7cm, later they had 7,6cm. In 1917 they had 7,7cm (now called "Nahkampf-Batterien") Those Nahkampf-Batterien (close-range batteries) were dissolved in may 1917. The remaining Inf.Gesch.Btr. raised up to 51 batteries and were "for special duty".

Here we see the IR 15 or the RIR 15. In this time IR 15 belonged to the 5th army and RIR 15 to the 2nd army.

The 2nd army didn´t have IGBs, but the 5th army had the Infanterie-Geschütz-Batterie Nr.1.

Maybe this is the unit, which supported the IR 15 with the 3,7cm. If that is true, the photo was taken near Verdun. The 13th Inf.Div., left Cambrai in march 1916 and arrived Verdun (by Montmédy-Stenay) at 5th june. They stayed at Hill 301 until september.

No guarrantee about this, it´s just a theory

[The Prussian]

Addition 2.

I assume, the photo was take in may/june 1916, because the Grabenkanone was replaced by the 3,7cm Sturmbegleitkanone.

[Chris Boonzaier]

Hi,

I assume they didnt toss them though, as long as there was ammunition they must have stayed in service.

I had never seen anything like this...

[Paul H2]

Here is another image from "Das Gerät der Artillerie vor, in und nach dem Weltkrieg."

[Chris Boonzaier]

Cool.... I had never seen one before... does anyone know of any ina Museum?

[Paul H2]

Chris,

I checked my photos for Koblenz--but it doesn't seem to be in the collection there, nor Duxford--not that's too much help.

Paul

P.S. Now that I think of it is the museum at Koblenz still there?

Edited February 5, 2013 by Paul H2

[The Prussian]

Addition:

I think, the photo might have been taken in 1916. Equipped with those guns were the "Infanterie-Geschütz-Batterien". Set up in may 1916, one battery had six 3,7cm, later they had 7,6cm. In 1917 they had 7,7cm (now called "Nahkampf-Batterien") Those Nahkampf-Batterien (close-range batteries) were dissolved in may 1917. The remaining Inf.Gesch.Btr. raised up to 51 batteries and were "for special duty".

Here we see the IR 15 or the RIR 15. In this time IR 15 belonged to the 5th army and RIR 15 to the 2nd army.

The 2nd army didn´t have IGBs, but the 5th army had the Infanterie-Geschütz-Batterie Nr.1.

Maybe this is the unit, which supported the IR 15 with the 3,7cm. If that is true, the photo was taken near Verdun. The 13th Inf.Div., left Cambrai in march 1916 and arrived Verdun (by Montmédy-Stenay) at 5th june. They stayed at Hill 301 until september.

No guarrantee about this, it´s just a theory

Do you agree, Chris?

[Chris Boonzaier]

Hi,

it sounds like a possibility, I am just trying to think if I have seen many trenches in the Verdun sector with that kind of wall? I always thought (for no ratonal reason) that the "woven walls" were only in some sectors where that kind of wood was around.

Like I said, that is a thought based on no rational evidence...

[Paul H2]

Chris,

I've seen a lot of photos of French trenches at Verdun with those types of walls. Mostly in the woods on the north end of the battlefield.

Paul

[IrishGunner]

Here's another image I found in the internet with a good opportunity to revive this thread.  Of note, I came back to this GMIC thread by Googling "Grabenkanone" - showing we are still one of the best sources on the internet!

I always thought these were infantry weapons, but found an image from 1914 on the internet that is interesting since it has artillerymen posing with a Grabenkanone...(as evidenced by ball topped Pickelhaube).

Image deleted by IrishGunner.

Edited November 5, 2015 by IrishGunner
Image deleted to avoid misperceptions of infringement.

[Chris Boonzaier]

Nice pic indeed!

[Chip]

The owner of that photo has his web name under the shield (DrakeGoodman). I suspect it was lifted from Flickr. I've heard that he has removed many of his best photos due to them showing up on many other sites on the Internet.

[IrishGunner]

I missed seeing DrakeGoodman's name in the corner.  If I had noticed it, I would have cited it in my post.  DG is the source for a lot of great images with immense research value and with his name on the photos, I believe due credit is afforded to him.  Too bad he's removed many of his best photos.  It's just my opinion, but I see no point in owning such a photo, if it's not shared under fair use for its historical value.  Now, if someone is out there reproducing them for sale, that's an entirely different story...

[Chip]

With an eye to perhaps publishing owned photos, I would not want to have mine spread over the Internet. I do post photos, but have found them all over the Internet and have, on a few occasions, had to prove they were mine before someone would give me credit. Due to that, I don't post photos that I may use for book purposes. I do post photos, but if they are something unique, I now normally watermark them.

Edited November 5, 2015 by Chip

[Chris Boonzaier]

Hi,

I put my "watermark" on photos I may want to use someday in the future.... but did once berate someone on a facebook page for stealing my photos... only for him to say he did not steal them from me, but from someone else... who had stolen them from me.

Nowdays I assume anything posted will be posted elsewhere.... and the only thing to save a little bit of property rights is a big watermark.

[IrishGunner]

I didn't intend to hijack this valuable thread on Grabenkanone with a discussion about ownership, copyright, fair use, and the internet.  That horse died a long time ago...  I only posted the image to further the discussion on this weapon.  Nevertheless, I deleted the image.

[dond]

I own a couple of 37mm rounds. I've always wondered what sort of punch they had to them.

[Chip]

Don,

I would think a relatively concentrated punch. I have some AP 37mm rounds and they could do some damage with a direct hit. The HE and canister type rounds are not nice either, especially when fired in rapid order by something like a Maxim.

Edited November 6, 2015 by Chip

[Chris Boonzaier]

15 hours ago, IrishGunner said:

I didn't intend to hijack this valuable thread on Grabenkanone with a discussion about ownership, copyright, fair use, and the internet.  That horse died a long time ago...  I only posted the image to further the discussion on this weapon.  Nevertheless, I deleted the image.

Hi,

I think many online folks (myself included) dont mind stuff being passed around... at the end of the day we all have the same goal, spread the information and keep the hobby alive.

13 hours ago, dond said:

I own a couple of 37mm rounds. I've always wondered what sort of punch they had to them.

I think post WW1 probably nowhere near powerful enough, but for WW1 trench shields and WW1 armour maybe more than enough?