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Can someone help?

I've at last found some of my Grandfather's service records but am puzzled by an entry. It states "Para 2,c Section XIX Queens Regulations 1895" against an entry of reverting to Private from Drummer. (Obviously in trouble for something again - seems to have reverted to Private quite a lot from what I can see).

Can anyone tell me what paragraph 2,c of Section 19 of Queens Regulations say? I can't find them on t'tinternet.

Thanks

Spaz

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Ah, that seems to make sense given the other....erm...mishaps and court of enquiries where it states "he was not on duty at the time" and "the injury will not affect his duties as a soldier". Although, to be fair, the last one actually ended in his death.

Still, he seems to have been a bit of a rough one.

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  • 1 month later...

Think I have enough for the time being, unless someone has his medals :o

My (perhaps) Granddad:

Born London (St Lukes) 1873

Joined Royal Fusiliers in Hounslow in 1891 from the 4 Middlesex Regt

Spent a couple of years around Dover, Lydd, Aldershot and Woolwich, became L.Cpr in the 2nd Btn in 1891 until being absent in1893 - confined and reverted to Private and pay deducted.

He was then shipped to Karachi on HMS Malabar in 1893 (probably didn't want to go which was why he sodded off earlier):

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He then was moved on to Hydrabad later that year and extended his army service "to complete 12 years with the colours" in the 1st Btn and was promoted? to Drummer.

Moved back to Karachi and suffered eight+ bouts of Malaria when he was hospitalised for days on end. He was also in hospital for 17 days in 1895 for having an ulcer on his penis (arrrrrgh).

Then he started to ponce about getting into fights etc and was confined, demoted to private, loss of pay, court of enquiries and admittance to hospital on a couple of occasions for "wounds to face".

The court of enquiries state "He was not on duty at the time" and "it will not interfere with his duties as a soldier"

Moved to Nasirabad in 1898 and then back to England in October that year.

He was married to my Granny on Christmas Day 1899 and was discharged unfit as his extension to service was cancelled on reverting to Private under section XIX etc. in 1900.

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The First War came along in 1914 and he enlisted in November as a Strapper in the Army Service Corps. He never made it to France.

While in camp in Southampton awaiting to embark on troopships he got himself into a fight (his last). He got into an argument over who was to cook dinner (after getting back from the pub). Went outside the tent, started fighting, slipped and banged his head on a ten

 

wooley (1).JPG

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Briliant piece of work - really put's the meat on the bones of your grandfather and it doesn't really matter if his record of service wasn't 'exemplary', he is still someone to be proud of. I recently discovered that my grandmother on my fathers side had ended up in the 'Workhouse' in Durham City, along with her mother and siblings. Originally I thought she'd been widowed and destitute or whatever - however it appears her husband may have booted them all out of his home, where he was still living with own mother and sister. Even my own father didn't know this, but I find it fascinating.

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Yeah, still haven't really got to the bottom of that either. Found out that my Dad was in the Rock Apes in WW2 and, it looks like, there's also a bit of intrigue there. Firing squads no less.

S'funny how these 'family' stories aren't told. Graham's Grandmother booted out of the house and ended up in the workhouse, my Granddad killed fighting, loads of others you gents have found out about yours as well, no doubt - why do people keep this to themselves? What's to be ashamed of?

Mind you, saying that, I never told my kids, probably waiting for the Grandkids to ask - but how do they know what to ask.

I can see it now, Werther's Originals, nice lighted log fire, he asks "what did you do Grandad?"

"Well, there I was surrounded......"

Yeah right ;)

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Spaz

My aging eyes couldn't make out the text in the newspaper clippings. Any chance of a precis on the origins of Wooley Bully? That one's bugged me for years - every time I hear the song.

As to distinguished ancestors, just remember that for every recognized hero there were another bunch of blokes following behind and holding his coat and such. So you can say, with understandable pride, "Grandad was one of the other blokes!"

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Here's the clipping in a bit more detail - last sentence before the last paragraph "Woolley was a bully."

However, the song by Sam the Sham and his Pharaohs also had the lyrics "Woolly Bully." These were changed from "Hully Gully" by their manager just in case any law suits came from the Olympics (who had a song by the same name) or from some gay bloke called Frank Roco who invented a line dance of the same name. He toured America teaching people how to carry out instructions from an MC while jigging up and down in a line, drinking Coors, with a cowboy hat and boots on. Jeez. Rawhide.

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  • 1 month later...

So, a bit more on family matters (my Dad) that hopefully some of ya'll can put a bit of meat on as far as squadrons etc are concerned.

I've been doing a bit of scratching and will, eventually, get the records from the MOD and then claim/buy his medals as I think the ones I have are actually one of my uncle's.

I'm trying to piece together little bits and bobs that I remember my Dad talking about as he wasn't too forthcoming about anything.

It looks like my Dad joined the airforce in 1940 (as found on AIR78 from the National Archives - what a rubbish website for IT useless people to search) at Uxbridge, although I'm not sure of this. He ended up in the Rock Apes (RAF Regiment) although he did tell me he served as mid upper gunner in Blenheims and front observer/gunner in Walruses (need to get more info on this). He said it was bloody cold and wet in the Walrus chained into the front seat. He also said it was cold flying nights in the Blemheim as he stuffed newspaper into all the gaps to stop the draughts. He had to get them out quick if attacked. When I asked if he shot anything down (as a kid all you want know is the action bits) he said there was no chance to hit anything - as fighters were too quick - other than shooting out searchlights as he could shoot right down the beam of light. He had a big scar on his chin where he says one of the guns jammed and as as he tried to clear it in a panic it went off in the breach.

The first squadron I've tracked him to is 2867 LAA which was formed in Pillipiville in North Africa and then went off to Italy in 1943. During his time in North Africa he described to me an incident of when a Flt Lieut was killed. I've found the following to confirm what he said from "Through Adversity" a history of the Royal Air Force Regiment by Kingsley M Oliver. I can't say that this was the exact incident but these sort of things couldn't be that common.

'The success of this campaign, for the first units of the RAF Regiment to be committed to battle was marred by a tragic incident in North Africa in May 1943. Flight Lieutenant AG Onley, commanding 4347 AA flight was preparing to hear a charge of dereliction of duty against one of his men when the airman concerned loaded his sten gun and fired a burst of 9mm rounds into the Orderly Room tent. Onley died of his wounds shortly afterwards and the airman was subsequently found guilty of murder by a court-martial'

My Dad described it, as far as I remember, as - 'this Flight Lue was a right git and this guy really hated him cause he was such a tit and says he's had enough of him, he picks up his tommy gun and lets him have the whole clip. The Flight Lue was sitting at the front of the tent and it blew him out the back flaps. The guy gives himself up and is done for murder and sentenced to death by firing squad. His own unit's men were to be the firing squad. When we guarded him there was no door on the cell and we could've just said get on your toes but we didn't otherwise they would have known who'd let him go. We were told that one of the firing squad would be issued with a blank so you could think that it may not have been you that had shot him but everyone knows when you're firing a blank. They put a target over his heart and because he was your mate you didn't want him to suffer so everyone hit the mark.'

I suspect this was the same incident although I can find no other reference to it.

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