Oldenburg THREE Miniature 1870/71 Red Cross Rarities: Nameless!

[Guest Rick Research]

This one baffles me, falling into a giant data void: late 19th century old civilians.

The Traveling Museum therefore calls upon our Research Gnome brethren in Kapitel Groß-Berlin !!!!

Prussian Crown Order 3rd Class with Red Cross on 1870/71 Commemorative ribbon (396 awarded--have the Roll BUT...)

1870/71 War Medal in steel (presumably on "noncombatant" ribbon for actual field ambulance/hospital type work in France)

Brunswick House Order of Henry the Lion (? BrH3a...)

Oldenburg 1870/71 Cross for Sacrifice and Loyalty to Duty (163 awarded-- INSTANT answer if compared with KO3rKEBd but I have no Roll until 1914)

Bavarian 1870/71 Merit Cross (I don't have number awarded... but in a TRIO with the above two?!)

Russian Order of St. Anna

Russian Order of St. Stanislaus

Italtian Order of the Crown of Italy (which would be a very very early award)

Johanniter Orden-Professkreuz

NOT a career Prussian civil servant, since none of the usual Red Eagle etc etc stuff. This was a Protestant noble Prussian... enthusiastic Red Cross volunteer. A Rittergutbesitzer or some sort of local Kommerzienrat or.....

Can't get past only having the KO3 Roll to work with... and by the time I have civilian sources like the 1908/09 Ordensalmanach... this guy was dead and gone. This is a pre-1897 chain--no Centenary Medal. Was the wearer dead even before that year?

Aaaaagghhh.

Edited July 18, 2013 by Rick Research

[VtwinVince]

Holy cow, another outstanding Kette. I love the KO3mGK mini, never seen one before on a chain.

[saschaw]

Lovely chain!

I'm not actually from "Groß-Berlin".... well, depending on how big you define it. Still may join the game?

Every time I see stuff like this, the Wrede group comes to mind. Wrede, on whom I don't have much information, was a Red Cross co-founder and a sougar industrialist.

Some of his stuff (and probably more I can find now in my data mess... ) was auctioned at Zeige and at medalhouse, some years ago - maybe in 2oo8.

If it is his, he doesn't wear all of his awards. A Zähringer, a Belgian life saving medal and the Hessen cross are at least missing.

On the other hand, the Johanniter (only Profeßkreuz???) is confusing - and totally miss-placed.

Might it be possible there used to be something else... ?

[Guest Rick Research]

Someone like that, but not him--because of the other German 1870/71s. I think our old civilian volunteer had these mounted as if "all on ribbons" medal bar and then last the sew on Johanniter.

I have never seen any regulations for wear of miniatures--by anybody!

(GMIC Ortsgruppe Traveling Museum's members drive up to 7 hours to worship at the Epson, so GMIC Kapitel Groß-Berlin could be most of Mitteleuropa! )

Edited July 19, 2013 by Rick Research

[Guest Rick Research]

No joy from the Reichs-Hauptstadt?

See how difficult CIVILIAN groups are?

[Komtur]

The Traveling Museum therefore calls upon our Research Gnome brethren in Kapitel Groß-Berlin !!!!

Prussian Crown Order 3rd Class with Red Cross on 1870/71 Commemorative ribbon (396 awarded--have the Roll BUT...)

Groß-Berlin must fold too. Tried double check Crown Order with Johanniter from the Ordensliste, but to many von, Freiherr, Graf etc. among them. I have no other idea ...

Regards, Komtur.

Edited August 5, 2013 by Komtur

[Guest Rick Research]

If we had an Oldenburg HuS HB with the complete roll for THEIR Cross, we'd HAVE this guy! Aaaargh.

[saschaw]

Someone like that, but not him--because of the other German 1870/71s.

Wrede (born 1818, died 1890 Berlin) is so close I'm still not convinced it cannot be his. Attached are pictures of two of his miniature chains, from Zeige's 27th auction, held in Hamburg March 15th, 2oo8.

KO3RC, the two Russians, Brunswick, Italy and the 1870s from Oldenburg and Bavaria.... that's almost too close to be wrong! =P

As said, I find it possible the Johanniter was a later addition to the chain, leaving space for e.g. a Württemberg Olgaorden.

Does anyone have the medalhouse catalogue to check what they had, besides his tuxedo bar yet posted?

[Guest Rick Research]

There's no Hessen 1870/71. Any/all of the foreign awards could have been added years later, but NOT a Hessen 1870/71--and it isn't on THIS chain.

[Claudio]

Beautiful miniaturkettchen... :love:

By the way the above-illustrated box with the ribbons lies with my collection...

ciao,

C

[saschaw]

By the way the above-illustrated box with the ribbons lies with my collection...

Ah, good to know!

There's no Hessen 1870/71. Any/all of the foreign awards could have been added years later, but NOT a Hessen 1870/71--and it isn't on THIS chain.

Mh, good point... incredible how close they are, however. And how hard to distinguish, without full lists of all of the awards.

[Guest Rick Research]

Yup-- we NEED to get that Oldenburg listing from a Hof- und Staats Handbuch showing complete lists close to when they were made.

WE Research Gnomes are few, far between, and even after decades of hunting, STILL cannot find everything needed.

Another gigantic data void example is Anhalt. There no longer exist any Rolls for the Albert the Bear Order... so our ONLY hope is a HuS HB listing of at least native recipients if not all up to that year. No such luck, so far.

We are ancient, but not immortal. Too much remains for our generation still to do. Then it's YOUR turn. Think where YOU will be in 30 years!

Edited August 13, 2013 by Rick Research