Bundesrepublik 2 Bundeswehr Caps

[Leuchtturm]

Hi there,

I want to show you this two Bundeswehr Caps.

What´s your opinion about it?

Best wishes

Chris

[Alex K]

Hi the first one is Bundesheer and the second is Bundesluftwaffe, both appear to be original officer caps, time frame I would say 1960,s period

regards

Alex K

Edited July 25, 2013 by Alex K

[Leuchtturm]

Hi Alex,

thank you very much!

Best wishes

Chris

[SteveL]

Chris, two nice original Bundeswehr visor caps, the first one is Army Staff Officers cap for the rank of Major to Colonel, indicated by the embroidered oak leaves on the cloth peak, it is an early one from between 1962-1970, indicated by the ribbed band which has typically faded. The second is indeed a Luftwaffe Officers junior rank visor cap, again indicated by the embroidered scallops on the cloth peak, worn by Leutnant to Hauptmann ranks, this hat is hard to date, unless it is marked on the inside.

Prost ! Steve.

Edited July 25, 2013 by SteveL

[Alex K]

Hi all, I know this is an old posting but reading it I noticed a cap very similar to one I've acquired recently, could anyone give me a time frame when it was made/worn. It is used and named to an Oberst of Kampftruppenschule 1, the cap band looks slightly faded on the photo but in hand is deep black. forgive my ignorance but what exactly is or was a Kampftruppenschule

any help appreciated

regards

Alex K

[Gordon Craig]

Alex K,

According to the Bundesehr site, Kampftruppenschule 1 was the original name of the Panzertruppenschule Munster when it was first formed in 1956. It is not clear from their writeup how long this name stayed in use. This cap looks too new to be from that time frame though. Officers visor caps from the 50s were much darker in colour than this one. I don't think a cap this colour would have seen use much before the mid 60s if that early.

Regards,

Gordon

[Alex K]

Hi Gordon, thanks for the info, at least I've got something to work on.

regards

Alex K

[speedytop]

Hi Alex,

the Kampftruppenschule I was located in Hammelburg, between 1963 and the beginning 90s with this name (before and after this time it was the Infanterieschule).

Uwe

[Gordon Craig]

Alex K,

I apologize for my mistake. Uwe is correct. I went back to the site I looked at before and I was mistaken.

Regards,

Gordon

[Alex K]

Hi Uwe, just spotted your reply, thanks for the correction, no problem Gordon, thanks for the input

Alex K

[Alex K]

I actually have another question concerning BRD headwear. I recently picked up a well preserved Luftwaffe cap, dated 1967, It has light grey piping as opposed to the usual yellow piping normally associated with the Luftwaffe, it is made by Bamberger Mutzen Industrie. The appearance is almost Identical to the Bundesheer cap, (Also made by Bamberger) including the cloth colour, the Luftwaffe insignia appears completely original to the cap, so I assume it is unmessed with, although the cockard has a more "Silvery" than gold look, did the luftwaffe change the style of uniform, including dropping branch colour piping and cloth colour?, if so at what point.

regards

Alex K

Edit, (several hours after some research) could it as an alternative be the Heeresfliegertruppe, which may explain why it has strong similarities to the Bundesheer cap?

Edited July 25, 2014 by Alex K

[Gordon Craig]

Alex K,

Heeresfliegertruppe were part of the Heer and wore Heer uniforms so the chances of them wearing a Luftwaffe cap badge just don't seem reasonable. The colours on the Heer cap piping with the luft cap badge look odd to me. The piping doesn't appear to be grey. Looks blue to me. The Heersflieger grey piping is very close to the cap colour and shouldn't stand out as such an obvious colour difference. In addition, although the Heersfliegertruppe adopted the cuffband with the stylized wing on it that was worn by the Luftwaffe they adopted it in a different background colour, dark grey instead of blue. Another reason that wearing a Luftwaffe cap badge just doesn't seem logical. I've posted photos of my Heersfliegertruppe visor cap and a comparison of the Luftwaffe armband and the Heeresfliegertrupp cuffband. Be interesting to hear what Uwe has to say.

Regards,

Gordon

[speedytop]

Hi,

the metal Luftwaffen cap badge is definitely wrong on this cap. There was no change.

On this grey (grau) cap it must be, correct with the 3 light grey (hellgrau) pipings (1 Deckelbiese und 2 Randbiesen) for the Heeresflieger, the Heeres cap badge.

As you can see, the blue-grey (blaugrau) Luftwaffen cap has only 1 golden yellow (goldgelb) piping (Deckelbiese).

Uwe

[Alex K]

Hello gentlemen, attached are closer images of the waffenfarbe of the cap, is it grey or light blue,(Looks grey to me, but could be light blue!!!),

So If I understand correctly, it is a heer cap but with a Luftwaffe badge attached, what branch of Heer would it be? I am confused slightly as I've looked on the outside and inside the cap very carefully and there are no tell-tale signs that the badge has ever been replaced, The prongs go straight through the cap and there are no additional holes.

regards

Alex K

Edited July 25, 2014 by Alex K

[Gordon Craig]

Alex K,

There should be no extra/new holes because this Luftwaffe badge is on the hat instead of a Heer badge. They would fit in the same place. As to what colour your piping is I still can not tell. It looks pale blue on my screen and there was no such colour ever used in the Bundeswehr. It is much too light a grey for Heersfliegertruppe. There were two darker blues which are hard to tell apart but nothing that looks like what I see on my screen. It could be white for music, otherwise I have no idea.

Regards,

Gordon

[speedytop]

Alex,

it was written before, it is a cap for the Heeresflieger.

Turn around the sweat band, and you can normally see the splints of the badge. Open them carefully, withdraw the badge and fasten a Heer badge.

That is my advice.

Uwe

[Alex K]

Hi thank you both for your comments I will change the badge I have a few spare ones but they are all Luftwaffe!, Heer badges are not difficult to find.

regards

Alex K

[Alex K]

Just an update, I've managed to aquire a Heer badge and replaced the Luftwaffe one, as I mentioned before, there were no additional hole to suggest that it was a replacement badge, fortunately I was able to re-use the original holes for the replacement, so it looks ok. Waffenfarbe, light grey or light blue? I can't decide for myself now!!. with regards to the nice cap posted by Gordon, perhaps viewing the waffenfarbe against the darker cloth colour and the lighter cloth colour is confusing

regards

Alex K

Edited July 27, 2014 by Alex K

[Gordon Craig]

Alex K,

Since there is no blue colour like this used in the BW, it is probably grey. Uwe is usually correct in these things. Your cap would appear to be from an earlier time frame than mine due to the darker colour. As we thought, the Heer badge fit the existing holes so you now have a correctly badge hat. Nice addition to your collection now.

Regards,

Gordon

[Alex K]

Hi Gordon, thanks for your comments. at least now it looks like it should, It is a nice hat and apart for the badge in a very good condition, Small size (53) but as a part of a collection, I don't wear them! so it's not a problem, if someone added the badge later, they could have picked the correct one

regards

Alex

Edited July 27, 2014 by Alex K