Valter Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 Recently I got this officer's bar and I'd like your opinions - first, is it good one? I don't see any bad signts, but it's always good to get another opinion... This is most likely not ID-able, but I'd like to learn more about the owner of this one; officer sure, but not on active service after ww1 (no 3R service awards), yet recalled for some rear duty during WW2 (KVKoX). I couldn't find a division where Baden and Hessen units would be mixed, so I'd assume he was a citizen of Baden/Hessen, serving in the regiment of the other country, right? But long service award is Prussian... I apologize if my questions are stupid and simple for more experienced guys, but I'm still learning... Thanks in advance for any help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auseklis Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 From the picture, it looks like the long service is missing it's device? It also looks like the EK ribbon might have had a device also? Very difficult to tell from the picture. The KVK on the other hand does not seem to have had swords. Maybe a policeman? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valter Posted September 27, 2013 Author Share Posted September 27, 2013 Auseklis, thank you for your observations. No, there are no traces of devices neither on long service nor EK ribbon. Ribbons are just a bit frayed at points where the hole is punched in the metal backing tabs. This kind of damage can be seen sometimes on bars with metal backings with pre-punched holes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Danner Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 For what it's worth, there were mixed Ghzgl. Badisch and Hessisch units, among them IR 389 and IR 418. But I agree it is more likely simply a native of one state serving in the contingent of the other. Baden and Hessen border each other, so mixing was common. Since the Hessen ribbon is before the Baden ribbon, he was more likely a native of Hessen. A typical scenario would be a native of Hessen who went to university in Baden (Heidelberg or Freiburg) and did his one-year volunteer service in a Baden regiment, remaining in that unit as a reserve officer. Heidelberg seems likely, since the closest village in Hessen to the University of Heidelberg, Neckarsteinach, is just 10 kilometers from the school. Indeed, Darmstadt is just 50 km away from Heidelberg and thus 30 km closer to Heidelberg than to Hessen's own university in Giessen. Both grand duchies' contingents were part of the Prussian Army, so a Prussian long service would fit. Are you certain that there was never a device? Because a swastika device for a Treuedienst-Ehrenzeichen would certainly make sense for a wartime Lt.d.R. who returned to the civil service after the war. Though an LD2 would also make sense, if he was in the army for long enough before the war. And might also fit if he was too old to be recalled in World War Two but get the KVK2 for something on the homefront. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valter Posted September 28, 2013 Author Share Posted September 28, 2013 Dave, thank you very much for your voluminous explanation! It makes perfect sense - a student that went to 1y.FW and then reserve officer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valter Posted September 29, 2013 Author Share Posted September 29, 2013 After thorough examination of the last (blue) ribbon I found no traces/stenciles of any device, no impressions, difference in shades etc. The ribbon is most likely puncked, however, but there are no traces of something removed (no fraying of the ribbon tissue from the hole to the outside...) Can it be a device removed after short period, or there was no device at all? Can it indicate RAD long service (the RAD device was used only short period, then plain ribbon was used for RAD long service)? RAD service would match with KVKoX. Another question for Dave: are there any good sources for crosschecking the regiments and their composition? I searched the web (both in english and german) before posting this bar but found only some Baden/Hessen units, none of the two you mentioned. Or is it just yours erudite knowledge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Danner Posted September 29, 2013 Share Posted September 29, 2013 There is nothing on the Web, to my knowledge. For just such questions, I made a list of every wartime unit, and then went through various sources such as Formationsgeschichten, regimental histories, casualty lists, intelligence reports, award lists, etc. to determine how these units were related to various states. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valter Posted September 30, 2013 Author Share Posted September 30, 2013 Thank you, dave. I'm impressed. If you ever publish a book on this topic, I'd gladly buy one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.F. Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Valter, Congrats on the new ribbon bar! Kind regards Pierce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valter Posted October 9, 2013 Author Share Posted October 9, 2013 Thanks Pierce! :beer: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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