Exceptional Medal & Uniform Group - 2 NEW PHOTOS ADDED

[Kornel R.]

By the way Peter , did you see a movie " Amazing Grace " and remember that moment when fistful of abolitionists was trying to pass over the abolition of slavery in England and didn't do at the first time ?

One of the lords was explaining about murderous kind of work leading to death of thousands of children , women etc. on sugar cane plantations .... " - is it human , is that fair ? "

Another one responded "Certainly not ! , but we need our sugar , we love our tea !"

I'm against slavery and any violence , not using sugar either .... but if anybody ever ask me , the answer is - "Yes , wee need our sugar " , only because past and future of our culture and tradition is much more important to me then some overpopulated and extreme countries

best regards

Kornel

ps. we shouldn't be so serious about - almost nothing is up to us

[Mervyn Mitton]

Kornel - this is just a reminder - we try to avoid comments on politics and religion. With over 9300 members, there will always be someone with a different view........ Mervyn

[Kornel R.]

I'm sorry Mervyn ,you're right . Please better erase what I said .

regards

Kornel

24/10 - not necessary Kornel - they were good comments. The point really was that we all have to remember the audience....... M

[paul wood]

I have one comment to make we should judge the actions of the past as the they were thought of at the time, rather than in a 21st century politically correct framework. it will be interesting to see how our world is judged 200 years from now, my suspicion is that the word hypocricy will appear many times in the judgement.

Paul

[E Williams]

History is History but Time....moves on.

[sabrigade]

Thanks Mervyn,

I have his campaign suitcase in my collection which he used during the Anglo-Boer War, 1906 rebellion and the GSWA campaign.

He represented the GSWA campaign at the opening of the Delville Wood memorial in France in 1926.

I have sent you a P.M.

Regards,

Will

[peter monahan]

I should have replied to this sooner.

Primus: I was being [mostly] humourous. Even emoticons, sadly, don't do 'nuance' and I should know better than to try.

Secundus: avoiding [mostly] the politics of this or a bygone age, Kornel, I don't even disagree with you. I often tell people of a memorial tablet on the wall of St. Paul's Cathedral, London which I saw some 35 years ago and will never forget. It listed the names of 4 brothers who had died 'for the Empire', three in the West African political service and one with the Indian Army. None was 30 years old on his death. Not sure whether dying of blackwater fever would be worse than dying from a hand hammered jezail slug through the guts, but neither would be by any stretch 'glorious'. And none of the four, I'd guess joined up to get rich or famous! Kipling's "The White Man's Burden" is most often cited to be parodied and we won't get into the US in the Philippines, but I agree that many many of the old Imperials were in it for the best of motives, for which they get little credit these days.

Again, without judgement of them or we probably hypocritical moderns, I believe that our god or gods must judge us on what we meant to do and that, if we meant to do good, that will count for a lot. I certainly hope our age is judged that way in 200 years, and not on the demonstrably lamentable results of so many of our efforts!

Peace

Peter

Edited October 22, 2013 by peter monahan

[paul wood]

Well put Peter, although I always remember my headmaster's favourite phrase "The road to Hell is paved with good intentions"

Paul

[Mervyn Mitton]

My passing comment to Kornel was only a reminder to all, that with so many members, there is always someone ready to have an opposing view. You

only have to watch the Lounge and see how many are taken off. We also have to remember that Google picks almost all posts for their sites.

I think you have all expressed our history interests very well - and for myself, I don't think the World has improved for the better. Sould re-incarnation

exist - which , of course , we won't know until we 'pass-on' - then I would like to 'come back' in the Victorian period. Restrictions and the

nanny state did not exist as in today's life - and I think we were better for it. However, you had to have imagination and a willingness to work

[Chris Boonzaier]

then I would like to 'come back' in the Victorian period. Restrictions and the

nanny state did not exist as in today's life - and I think we were better for it.

I think you are the only one here who can remember that far back.... ;-)

[Mervyn Mitton]

Typical - kick the elderly when they're down. One day - you too - will reach an advanced age Chris. Providing a certain person doesn't get

you first ?

I find I have two questions in the morning - 1. Where am I ? 2. Am I still here ?

[paul wood]

To misquote Descartes I sniff my underarms each morning and say " I stink therefore I am"

If I were to be reincarnated I would like to be a country parson in a good living circa 1880.

Paul

[Brett Hendey]

As Mervyn has already mentioned, the 1906 Natal Rebellion was put down by Colonial troops with no help from the Mother Country. Not being in charge did not suit everyone in Britain and the actions of the Colonists in managing their affairs upset even Winston Churchill, amongst others. He referred to Natal as "that hooligan Colony", harsh words indeed from the great man. In spite of the criticism, Duncan McKenzie did his duty and successfully put down the Rebellion. He deserves to be judged by the standards of the times and place he lived, not by any others. He certainly does not deserve the disrespect he has been shown in his home country.

It is a matter of regret that McKenzie's relics are not preserved intact in a local museum as part of the history of what was once the Colony of Natal.

Brett

[paul wood]

Brett can you give more details about McKenzie's relics.

Paul

[paul wood]

Sorry Brett brain not working , I thought you were referring to further relics.

Paul

[Mervyn Mitton]

Brett - I fully agree with you - the correct place for these is in a local Museum. However, they will most probably go overseas - which is a

tragedy when he is such a well known officer. The main problem is the 1906 Command - I believe they even changed the street named

after him in Pietermaritzburg ? I think the bids are standingr at around R100,000 - and it doesn't finish until the end of November. Mervyn

[Strapper]

I tried to sell my soul at the crossroads , so i could buy this medal group, but Old Nick said my soul already had a few markers on it already, best he could do was a standard WW2 set with air crew star and bar....drat!

[Brett Hendey]

Mervyn

You are right about the street name change. It is a pity that South Africa did not follow the example of Singapore, where the past (warts and all) is remembered and built upon.

I hope that the medal group and other decorations are re-united by a single buyer, so the entire collections of awards is kept together. It would have been far better if this sale had been handled by an experienced medal auction house, where the significance of award entitlements is understood.

Regards

Brett

[Mervyn Mitton]

Brett - you are very right in your comments. Mervyn

[Mervyn Mitton]

NEW PHOTO OF SET:

This shows some of the uniform and a better shot of the different medals and awards

http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_10_2013/post-6209-0-22248000-1383038642.jpgclick

[Mervyn Mitton]

This is a better photograph of Brigadier General McKenzie

http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_10_2013/post-6209-0-67142200-1383038911.jpgclick

[Brett Hendey]

Another photograph of Sir Duncan McKenzie:

[QSAMIKE]

Hi Mervyn......

There were 150 medals with bar issued to the Lancaster and York Regiment......

But yes this was a Colonial Affair.....

Mike

I agree - it is certainly the splendour of the past. The 1906 Zulu Rebellion was suppressed with only Colonial troops from South Africa.

The 1906 Medal was the only time that an Imperial Medal was awarded to only Colonial Troops. He was the Commander in Chief for the

campaign - I would think the Knighthood comes from that.

[Brett Hendey]

Mike

The Lancashire & Yorkshire Contingent was a locally-raised group of volunteers, presumably with strong links to the counties in its name. The Imperial regiments garrisoned at Fort Napier in Pietermaritzburg immediately before, during and after 1906 were the 1st Royal Garrison Regiment, 2nd Cameron Highlanders, and 3rd Royal Warwickshire Regiment. They took no part in putting down the Rebellion.

Shown below is the medal group of a man who served in Natal with the Royal Garrison Regiment. He had served previously with the 1st Royal Highlanders (Black Watch) in Egypt and other parts of the Empire before settling in Natal. He went on to serve in the S A Medical Corps during WWI.

Regards

Brett

[Brett Hendey]

All the McKenzie items have been withdrawn from the sale. No explanation was given.

Brett