Gebirgsartillerie

[IrishGunner]

Having served in the US 10th Mountain Division, I have a particular interest in mountain artillery. However, finding photos etc with German WWI Gebirgsartillerie is difficult. It just doesn't come my way very often.

This particular card is curious because it shows a 15cm schweres Feldhaubitze M1893 and is labeled "15cm Gebirgshaubitze". Franz Kosar's book on Gebirgsartillerie doesn't mention the 15cm sFH 93 as a mountain artillery piece. In fact, he only goes up to 10.5cm guns.

Most of the 15cm sFH 93 were in Landwehr or training units; however, I've seen a few Bay. Fussartillerie photos with old 15cm guns. So, I suspect this is a Bavarian gun in the Vosgesen. That's all speculation, but sometimes that's all we have...

And at least it let me start a thread on mountain artillery...

[IrishGunner]

Maybe one of our great German hand-writing code breakers can help with the reverse of the card. The unit stempel is very, very faded; but I think I see "Reserve...Pionier...Komp..." Maybe the note has some clues.

[Chris Boonzaier]

Hi,

48th Res. P. Komp

[IrishGunner]

Hi,

48th Res. P. Komp

Hi,

Thanks

(So, polite we are... )

[IrishGunner]

Here is a "true" Gebirgsartillerie card. A great stempel of "Gebirgskanonen Batterie Nr. 2" The picture isn't all that great, but is called "Gebirgsartillerie Vogesenwacht"

I am still trying to track down the higher headquarters for this mountain artillery unit, but I think it's Württemberg.

[Bernhard H.Holst]

Hello Rick.

Ref. # 2 :

31.8.17

Liebe Eltern und Geschwister.

Fuer das Paket vom 26. ds. ( dieses Monats) herzlichen Dank. War sehr erfreut darueber.

Herzlichst gruesst auf Wiedersehen. Franz

Abs.( Absender) Pionier Frnz. Becker 48 (?) Res.Pion.Kompanie

Feldpost 906

Read by a not so expert old script reader

Bernhard H. Holst

who started learning to write on a slate

[IrishGunner]

Bernhard, you are far better a script reader than I am! If it's printed, I usually have no problem. But handwriting...forget about it!

Thanks!

[IrishGunner]

Kgl. Bayer. Gebirgskanonen-Batterie Nr. 10

Fahrer Alois Starl; KIA 8 Nov 1918 - one of the last casualties of the war.

[The Prussian]

Hello IG

To your post:

The Feldhaubitze 150mm M93 was used by Reserve/Ldw and Ldst units. It was not a mountain gun as well. Probably the card was written wrong. It has a weight of nearly 2,2t! That´s three times more tha a normal german mountain gun tín the great war!

The Res.Pi.Kp.48 belonged to the 48.Res.Div. At the end of august 1917, the division was withdrawned from the front (Hill 304, Corbeaux wood). The Feldpostnummer 906t belonged to the 48.Res.Div. too. So that fits very well!

The Gebirgs-Kanonen-Batterie 2 was a prussian one. Officially it was called "Gebirgs-Batterie 2". Set up through Stv.Gen.Kdo XV.AK (Alsace) nov., 4th. 1914 (new-organized in may 1916)

It was under command of:

12.1.15-16.2.15: Division Fuchs

30.1.15-27.3.15: 33% in the 52.Ldw.Brig.

28.3.15-24.11.15: 33% in the 61.Ldw.Brig.

25.5.15-8.4.16: 33% in the "Abschnitt Plaine"

25.11.15-8.4.16: 66% in the 61.Ldw.Brig.

29.3.17 (?): Heegersgruppe Below

temp. 19.7.15-28.7.15: 8.bayer.Res.Div.

Unfortunaltely I don´t know, if the sender was part of the 33% or 66% ("Plaine" or 61.Ldw.Brig)

The 61.Ldw,Brig. was part of Armee-Abteilung Falkenhausen (17.9.14-3.1.17 in the Mid-Vosges)

After the reorganization it became part of the Gebirgs-Artillerie-Abteilung 6

[IrishGunner]

Andy, thanks for the info on Gebirgs-Kanonen-Batterie 2.

As for the 15cm M93; I want to clarify because I think you misunderstood my original post. I agree that it's not a true mountain gun - I never said that it was. I also agree with you - as stated in my OP - that most of these were in Landwehr units. What I said was that this type gun appears in many Bavarian Fuss-Artillerie units and that this one may be in the Vosgesen; causing what I might call a "creative" caption (while it seems you might prefer "mistaken" caption).

Of course, your info on the Res.Pi.Kp.48 is an argument against my Vogesen speculation, as I believe Corbeaux Wood is closer to Verdun. Or maybe not - because as frequently happens - what's written on the reverse of the card doesn't have to have anything to do with the front of the card. Why a Pioneer would send a card with an artillery piece on the front is too far open to speculation. It may have been all he could obtain. I've seen this photo before - it's not unique - and probably was widely distributed.

A final point; Herbert Jager writes in his book, that The Alpenkorps was known to convert heavy guns for use in the mountains, by breaking the load into two parts, including both the 15cm sFH 02 and the sFH 13 models, as wells as the 10cm K 04 and K 14. Are these "mountain guns"? No; but they are heavy guns used in the mountains. Just like I think this M93 was used in the "mountains." We're not talking the Alps here, but rather what are called mountains in Alsace-Lorraine or even the Ardennes (closer to Corbeaux Wood). This M93 remains a curiosity with the Gebirgs caption. And makes for speculation. I still believe this photo is a piece with a Bavarian Fuss-Artillerie unit in some "mountains" somewhere on the Western Front, possibly in the Vosgesen - maybe the Ardennes, and that someone added a "creative" caption because of the gun's location.

Edited November 14, 2013 by IrishGunner

[The Prussian]

Well,of course you´re right. It´s the difference between german and english words... Maybe in engish "mountain" has another definition than "Gebirge" in german. We also have a difference between "Berg" and "Gebirge".

Anyway, the Reichsarchiv said, the 48.Res.Div. was part of the "Gruppe Maas-West" near Verdun (under Gen.d.Inf. v. Francois). But it was released at the end of month

[drakegoodman]

Gebirgs Kanonen Batterie 2, Reserve Feldartillerie Regiment Nr. 19. Front and rear of a postcard in my collection.

>
>Gebirgs Kanonen Batterie 2, Reserve Feldartillerie Regiment Nr. 19 by drakegoodman, on Flickr

>
>Geb. Kanonen Batterie 2 by drakegoodman, on Flickr

[Chip]

I believe the unit on the back (of the Absender) reads, "Gebirgs Kanonen batterie 2, 1.Zug, 19.Res.Division. Armeeabteilung Gäde." I wonder why so many of the men have the number "51" on their helmet covers? Perhaps this Kaserne is in Strassburg i.E.?

Chip

[drakegoodman]

It's had me bamboozled too Chip, although that's not terribly difficult.

[Chris Boonzaier]

I believe the unit on the back (of the Absender) reads, "Gebirgs Kanonen batterie 2, 1.Zug, 19.Res.Division. Armeeabteilung Gäde." I wonder why so many of the men have the number "51" on their helmet covers? Perhaps this Kaserne is in Strassburg i.E.?

Chip

Here is a thought... the ersatz Battalion of the 51st FAR was somehow involved with the 30 RD, which would put them bang in the mountains of the Vogesen... which would fit. In 1916 the 30th Bav Res Div had a Mountain Batterie.... I am guessing this is with the Ersatz Batterie of the 30th Res Div

[The Prussian]

Hello!

The only link between FAR51 and 19.Res.Div., is, that the staff of the FAR51 belonged to the 19th.Res.Div. from 15.10.16-20.1.17. But that doesn´t fit to the stamp. That kind of stamp was used only in 1915.

Straßburg is possible. There was a Ersatz-Formation/Gebirgs-Kanonnen-Batterie Nr.2 in Straßburg. This unit was dissolved at 6.6.15. That couold fit with the stamp.

Edited December 13, 2013 by The Prussian

[KMB]

Hello, about a week ago a friend sent me a photo of a monument for a Baden Gebirgs Artillerie unit and I decided to search for anything I could find on this unit but I found nothing so I asked in a few other groups for any photos or history of the unit, but no one in the groups know nothing of this unit. Thanks

I included the photo of the monument with a red line under where it says the unit.

[The Prussian]

Hello!

It´s not a monument for a specific Baden artillery unit, but for all Baden Gebirgs-Artillerie and Infanterie-Geschütz-Batterien.

Baden (XIV.AK) had the following according units:

Gebirgs-Batterie 1 (became later Württemberg.Geb.Bttr.11)

Gebirgs-Batterie 4 (became part of Gebirgs-Artillerie-Abteilung 1)

Gebirgs-Batterie 9 (became part of Gebirgs-Artillerie-Abteilung 3)

Gebirgs-Batterie 14 (became part of Gebirgs-Artillerie-Abteilung 5)

Gebirgs-Batterie 17H (became part of Gebirgs-Artillerie-Abteilung 6)

A lot of Inf.Gesch.Bttr. were set-up by the Ersatz-Abteilungen of the Geb.Battr.

Ers.Abt. of Geb.Batterien from Baden were:

Ers.Form./Geb.Kan.Bttr. 1

Ers.Abt./Geb.Kan.Bttr. 5

Ers.Abt./Geb.Art.Abt. 5

Ers.Abt./Geb.Art. 5 and 6 (combinied) (Ersatz for Infanterie-Geschütz-Batterie 1, 3, 6 and 9)

So, Baden Inf.Gesch.Bttr. were the numbers 1, 3, 6 and 9, even there were not only Baden soldiers, they were set-up by prussian order

 

[KMB]

Ahh ok! Thanks. Did any of these Badisches Gebirgs-Artillerie units fight at Tirol in 1915?

[The Prussian]

No.

The first Inf.Gesch.Bttr. were set-up in september 1916.

In Tirol 1915 was only the bavarian Geb.Art.Abt.2

Here is the original ordre of battle for Tirol 1915:

Sorry, I was too quickly... That was the planned ordre of battle.

I juts saw, that the Geb.Art.Abt.1 was in the Alpenkorps from march-september 1915!

The Geb.Art.Abt. 6 was in the Alpenkorps since 1916.

Edited December 24, 2016 by The Prussian

[KMB]

Well, there goes my impression of doing a Baden Gebirgs Artillerie impresison . Another unit I had in mind was Württembergisches Gebirgs Kanonen Batterie Nr 6. They were under Bayerisches Gebirgs Artillerie Abt Nr 2 from May 1915 to Oct 1915 weren't they?

[The Prussian]

The württ. Geb.Kan.Bttr.6 was set-up in march 1915.

First (from may 1915 until february 1917) it was part of the bavarian Geb.Art.Abt.2, and came then to the württ. Geb.Art.Abt.4, where it changed with bavar. Geb.Bttr.12

 

Here is a map of 1915 in the Dolomites

Edited December 24, 2016 by The Prussian

[The Prussian]

Württ. Geb.Rgt.

[IrishGunner]

Just received this one in the mail!  It's a great history from what I've already read.  Fantastic photos.

[GreyC]

Glückwunsch!

GreyC