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JapanX

6th class Rising Sun in Chocolate Case

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In conslusion I must say that even cases for 1895 medals sometimes have this redness

Instead of this

This

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But of course all these examples cannot be compared with curiosity in post #1.

It is something special!

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Here is an example from a watch forum, these aren't my images just copied and pasted into paint to show the differences in variation.

The same watch, same year, same black starting dial, and different colors of brown shade in each, do we recognize the left most dial color ;) ;)

example1_zps3ff97cfc.jpg

Edited by Rogi

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Nick;

I don't collect these awards or their cases, but I am interested in your step-by-step analysis of the pieces. I never fail to learn something. I didn't know that the lacquer boxes could fade if they didn't get the proportions correct when they made it.

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they can also fade if the proportion is done correctly but the sun is directly shining on them over a long period. As Nick described it they "burn out".

It happened to my poor urushi vase which was standing on the windowsill.

By the way the only colored man made material which is almost unaffected by sunlight is enamel.

Edited by utopis

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Well, tell you the true I am not sure that fading is the only possible reason here.

I guess original chemical composition of lacquer could be different in case of this reddish boxes.

Hard to say ...

But most of early lacquered boxes for rising suns and sacred treasures remained black after all these years ;)

Edited by JapanX

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Well if the black lacquer fades it has exactly this reddish colour. But I've seen very old japanese lacquerware which retained it's black colour perfectly even after several hundreds of years

Edited by utopis

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Well if the black lacquer fades it has exactly this reddish colour

Yes, but what about reddish interior, sides and even bottom of the cases :whistle:

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Well, then it was probably made that way. After all the reddish-brown colour is not rare on Japanese lacquerware. Not as common as black colour but certainly nothing special.

Nonetheless for illustration purposes the aforementioned vase.

First the original black colour and then the "charred" spot.

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Yep, this color looks familiar.

I wish we have pictures of interior of this case from post #1 :whistle:

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Additionally it should be said that Japanese lacquerware consists of multiple lacquer coatings of which only one is coloured. The others are clear.

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Well if the black lacquer fades it has exactly this reddish colour. But I've seen very old japanese lacquerware which retained it's black colour perfectly even after several hundreds of years

Depends on the conditions, tropical environement effects it, if its been out on a shelf exposed to heat and humidity (ie house with no AC open to the conditions outdoors) vs a case stored inside in a storage room somewhere in your house, which isn't exposed to the conditions, then the black stays black :) and doesn't change color :)

If one step in the process for coating these is off and not suitable to these conditions, the browning or tropical look can occur easily over time and with the right "luck" from your environement, when you live in a tropical climate it occurs much easier.

You could also have in theory a perfectly coated example that has just withstood harsher conditions in life than other pieces and therefore due to the chemical reaction with the environement either fading or distressing of the color can occur :)

It all depends on your environment :)

A Great example is leaving a Yellow Flag outside in the environement on a flag pole and keeping another example in your drawer, which one would become more faded through time :) the environement and reaction to sun, heat, cold etc would all effect the color of the piece :) while the one that is protected and not used would remain close to New Old Stock.

Other examples where this can occur is watches and guitars, a lot of musicians that go to record in the Caribs either bring an alternate or don't take their prime examples with them, because the strings can rust and through time the guitar's finish can fade.

Edited by Rogi

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Looks like we find the owner! :lol:

What's up Igor? ;)

Thanks for these scans.

Yes, rim has same color, so it's not a simple consequence of burning-out process.

So either someone made a mistake and instead of black lacquered case made a chocolate one (I have serious doubts that this is possible, but why not?) or something happened with this case (hostile environment? reaction to chemicals? mistake in lacquer composition?).

Whatever cause was - I like the result! :lol:

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