Paul C Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 (edited) [attachmentid=28938][attachmentid=28938]Hey All, I jets picked up a Bayern pre 1914 Tunic. It came with a incorrect ribbon bar and this lanyard. I think it is an enlisted man's item. Is that so? It is correct Bayern. How rare are these? I would like to keep it but I would like to get a rough idea of value. Any help is greatly appreciated. I can't post a picture of the uniform as my camera is gone. Edited February 27, 2006 by Paul Chepurko Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Murphy Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 Paul, That is a pre-war Bavarian Shooting cord or lanyard and is the 11th of 12 degrees (12 being highest). These were worn by enlisted men only. Having collected specifically imperial for about 16 years, I can only remember seeing one before and that was in the 2nd or 3rd degree. Therefore I would say it is a fairly rare and high award. It would not surprise me if the badge was .800 silver. The prussian version which is red, white, black is much more common, but in the higher degrees (with a gilt shield) they get pricy at about $200 to $250. For this Bavarian version I would say more like $300 to $350. The enamel loss hurts it, but the rarity factor still keeps it up there. This would most likely have been worn by a long serving NCO so if the uniform is similar keep them together. Sweet piece!Dan Murphy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul C Posted February 28, 2006 Author Share Posted February 28, 2006 Dan, Thanks for the help. I just looked at do not see a silver content on the back. This came with a Bayern Officer's tunic so I took it off. The tunic is good but none of the items, except the belts, went with it. The ribbon bar was wrong also. I checked inside the pocket of the tunic and IDed the guy. See Artur Gestering post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chip Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 (edited) According to Das Deutsche Heer, there were ten degrees of the Sch?tzenabzeichen. This one, with a silver shield and silk (rather than wool) cord would be the sixth class. It is unclear in your picture, but it looks like the cord has red/white/black colors in it, whereas a Bavarian cord should have blue and white only. Is this one blue and white? If not, then the shield has been incorrectly added and that changes the degree and the value. If all correct, I would guess the value to be a much more conservative $175-$250, but these days no one really knows until one is offered for sale. Chip Edited February 28, 2006 by Chip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul C Posted March 1, 2006 Author Share Posted March 1, 2006 Chip, Thanks for the help. The cord does look like ti it white, black and red. But the shield is perfectly sewn to the cord. Is the shield maybe a Prussian shield? Do you have a picture of a Prussian or Bayern lanyard. From the construction of the cord and shield I find it hard to believe that it was messed with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chip Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 (edited) Paul,That is definitely a Bavarian shield and if the cord is red/white/black, it is not Bavarian. Something is rotten in Denmark me thinks. Most of the cords are pictured in volume III of Das Deutsche Heer, plate 180. The major states had their own particular shield designs. The Bavarian design was like yours with the Bavarian Rautenshild and its inlaid color. The Prussian (and other states with the exception of Saxony and W?rttemberg) version had Wilhelm II's cypher as the central motif. So, there were five different shield possibilities. Silver Bavarian, gilt Bavarian, Saxon, W?rttemberg, and Prussian (et al.). Unfortunately, it seems that your cord was put together from two different examples, one Prussian and one Bavarian.Chip Edited March 2, 2006 by Chip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Dwyer Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 (edited) I know absolutely nothing about lanyards, but I'm confused, why would a Prussian lanyard have black, white, and red threads, Prussia's colors were black and white. Black, white and red were the Imperial colors which I would think would only be used by the navy or colonial troops. Edited March 2, 2006 by Mike Dwyer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chip Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 Mike,I think that generally speaking, the Sch?tzenabzeichen does fall into that category of insignia that are somewhere between a state and a Reich's award. All of the states (and the navy), with the exception of Bavaria, wore the black, white, red cord. The fact that the Saxons don't have a green/white cord and the W?rttembergers a red/black cord somewhat verifies this notion. The use of the same cord by the navy reinforces it as well.Chip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Dwyer Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 Chip,Thanks for the explanation. It just seemed that the imperial Germans were so picky, picky about every little detail Iwould have thought each state would have had their own color lanyard (like the officer's shoulder straps), but I guess the Bavarians were the only ones that really wanted to push that to the limit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccj Posted May 26, 2012 Share Posted May 26, 2012 So Saxony wore the same lanyard as the Prudsians? I thought they had their own Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KIR Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 Hi Charles, the saxony had the same cord as the prussains, but an other shield (grade 5-10), see the chart here: Schützenschnur – Wikipedia Best regards, Jens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccj Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 Thanks Jens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccj Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 Good information... Off topic ( I proudly earned a bronze in the 80s, I did very well but fell short of silver not bad considering I had never shot any of the weapons before that evenly. ) So, did cavalry have opportunity for earning these? I know they have awards for there transitional weapons but... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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