Jump to content
News Ticker
  • I am now accepting the following payment methods: Card Payments, Apple Pay, Google Pay and PayPal
  • Latest News

    Recommended Posts

    No real point in listing all the various LDO and PK marks as these are widely available from numerous sources.

    There does still seem to be considerable misconception about the exact purpose of these markings however.

    The LDO mark ( with L/ prefix), more properly known as the Herstellerzeichen, was introduced on 1 March 1941.

    The origins of the LDO lay in a meeting held at the Pr?sidialkanzlei where it was decreed that in order to maintain the quality and thus the prestige of military awards and decorations, their manufacture was to be controlled and licensed.

    A subsequent meeting held in the Russischer Hof Hotel in Berlin on 15 July 1940 chaired by Dr Doehle and representatives from the orders manufacturing industry formally established the LDO as the central organisation for the control of the manufacture of awards for private retail. The address of the LDO was

    Leistungsgemeinschaft der Deutschen Ordenshersteller, 27 K?rnerstrasse, Hagen-Westf. (Later moved to Eugen Richter Strasse 6)

    A further notice on 1 November 1940 from the Pr?sidialkanzlei publicised the fact that the manufacture of orders and decorations for the private retail market was permitted only by Licensed firms.

    Firms who failed to follow regulations could be and indeed on occasion did have their manufacturing licenses withdrawn (Petz and Lorenz and Otto Schickle of Pforzheim being two examples).

    The actual LDO numbering was introduced on 1 March 1941 (ref. Uniformen Markt, 1.3.41) and required all awards from that date to be marked with the manufacturers LDO code.

    There was actually a formal guideline as to where the mark was to be placed. For instance, the official correct place for an LDO mark on an EK1 is in the lower part in the centre. Note that ribbon Crosses, including the RK and Grand Cross were to be marked on the suspension loop. Thus the Zimmermann (L/52) and Godet RK which carry the mark on the loop are correct-but the Juncker L/12 and 2, Steinhauer 4 and Zimmermann 20 RK are, technically speaking, incorrectly stamped being on the frame. This of course just goes to show that regu;lations were often ignored

    The original proclamation reads ""Jeder konzessionierte Hersteller erheilt soeben ein Kennzeichen (Herstellungsnummer) das von 1.3.41 ab auf den einzelnen Orden und Ehrenzeichen anzubringen ist, bei einseitigen Originalen und 16mm Verkleinerungen auf der R?ckseite, unten in der Mitte, bei doppelseitigen Originalorden und 16mm Verkleinerungen in Kreuzform (EK2, Ritterkreuz, Grosskreuz) wird die Zahl in den eingeh?ngten Ring eingeschlagen".

    The regulations also covered the packaging in which the awards were supplied. These were to be clearly marked with the LDO logo and the underside of the case/carton was to have the manufacturers LDO number ink-stamped.

    As far as Iron Crosses, for example, were concerned the following were specified.

    ?Full Case? (i.e. the good quality case with hinge, press stud etc).

    Grand Cross, Knights Cross, Oakleaves, EK1, EK1 Spange.

    ?Half Case? (i.e. the cheaper type with paper hinge and no press stud)

    EK2

    ?Carton? (i.e. the matchbox type with push out tray) in Gray

    EK2 Spange.

    Note that the regulations specify a case with LDO logo for the Grand Cross, RK and Oakleaves. It is well known that many wartime orders were not fully complied with, but, despite the fact that many have doubted the originality of RK or Oaks cases with the LDO monogram, original orders specified that these MUST be used for not only the RK and Oaks but the Grand Cross, confirming not only that these did exist but that the Grand Cross was available for commercial retail sales !

    One thing which is perfectly clear from original wartime proclamations is that the LDO was NOT responsible for awards supplied to the military EVER, only for private retail pieces. This is important. Comments are often made on the quality of awards such as ?the LDO would never have allowed something like this to go out?.

    Frankly, if the manufacturer supplied a poor quality award to the Pr?sidialkanzlei, the LDO couldn?t do a thing about it. Only the Pr?sidialkanzlei was responsible for official award pieces, the LDO only for restrikes/copies.

    Even at the time (Uniformen Markt Issue 9, 1 May 1942) Dr. Dohle felt it necessary to publish an announcement making it clear the restrictions on the LDOs authority.

    ????..the LDO is ONLY responsible for the manufacture and quality of orders etc FOR PRIVATE RETAIL BUSINESS. Orders made through the Pr?sidialkanzlei for awards, and all associated technical matters are NOT to be dealt with by the LDO????.?

    Attached is a copy of the proclamation relating to this.

    Edited by Gordon Williamson
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    On the subject of the actual markings themselves, during the Third Reich period anyone who had lost their award could obtain a free "official" replacement through the Pr?sidialkanzlei, purchase an additional piece "officially" or buy one at their own expense via the LDO retail outlets, ( these LDO marked pieces were in the terminology of the time referred to as Copies , Replicas or Restrikes).

    Note that this facility to obtain official replacements does not just relate to awards instituted during the Third Reich. A soldier for example, who possessed the 1914 Iron Cross First Class and lost or had his award damaged, could obtain an official replacement, and this would be appropriately marked with a Pr?sidialkanzlei Lieferant number, such as "4" for Steinhauer.

    If he elected to purchase his own privately just because he wanted an extra example, it would be marked with the LDO number.

    How many recipients would wish to pay for an over the counter copy when they could obtain an official relacement free? LDO pieces were considered restrikes, copies or replicas, not proper awards. Original period manufacturers catalogues attest to this

    As far as dual marked crosses are concerned, as the LDO marks predate the Pr?sidialkanzlei marks, it is likely that these were initially LDO marked then had the PK number added when they were used to complete an order from the Pr?sidialkanzlei.

    Attached is a declaration relating to LDO markings from a 1941 Steinhauer catalogue. Note the reference to the L-16 LDO number being used on "Nachbildungen" (i.e. Copies or Reproductions)

    In 1941 the retail sale of high grade decorations such as the Knights Cross and above was forbidden. Retailers were allowed to retain only display samples and all others had to be handed in to the Ordenskanzlei, the manufacturers being compensated appropriately. These LDO marked pieces ( like Juncker L/12 Knight's Crosses, L/50 marked Godet Oakleaves etc) were subsequently used as official award pieces.

    There is no evidence that any lower grade LDO marked pieces such as War Badges, EK1s, KVKs etc were ever used as formal award pieces.

    Edited by Gordon Williamson
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    • 4 weeks later...
    • 3 weeks later...

    Hi Jacques,

    Interesting. I don't know whether the slash can go the other way, but on the two L/52 boxed stamped markings I have, the slash is a typical "/". Both stamped markings are slightly different though, one on a screwback EK1 and the other on a Silver Wound Badge, so two separate punches were used imo.

    Regards

    Mike K

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Hi Jacques,

    Interesting. I don't know whether the slash can go the other way, but on the two L/52 boxed stamped markings I have, the slash is a typical "/". Both stamped markings are slightly different though, one on a screwback EK1 and the other on a Silver Wound Badge, so two separate punches were used imo.

    Regards

    Mike K

    Hi,

    I alsa have two other Spanish crosses marked L/52, but this one presents all the details required for a genuine cross of this manufacturer, except the "". May be the stamper was tipsy...

    jacques

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    • 1 year later...

    Hi Gordon,

    Thanks for a very informative thread. However there are still a couple of things that are not clear to me and perhaps you can help me out.

    I hadn't seen any info on when the Lieferanten-Nummer (commonly known as PK-number) came into existence, until I read about in Frank's book and I quote:

    ".... the by-law of 1st July 1937 designated Hitler as the sole authority in bestowing official decorations and awards. From here on, the Präsidentialkanzlei des Führers, and it's subsidiary branch, the Ordenskanzlei, exercised strict control over the creation and production of decorations, and selected the various companies that would be awarded goverment contracts. Located in Berlin, this institution was led by Ministerialdirektor Dr. Heinrich Doehle. Manufacturers, after being chosen for the production of actual award pieces, were assigned a Lieferanten-Nummer."

    Next quote:

    "In Juli 1940, the Leistungsgemeinschaft Deutscher Ordenhersteller more commonly known as "LDO", was founded and put under the direction of its general manager and NSDAP member, Schürmann."

    Is it fair to assume that 1937 was the actual date for the introduction of the PK numbers? Also, the control of official awards was conducted by the Ordenskanzlei, led by Doehle, but was the LDO a sub-branch to the Ordenskanzlei, thus giving him superiority over Sch?rmann?

    Is it known what date Otto Schickle's license was revoked?

    In St.&L.'s add from 1941, the articles Dienstauszeichnungen der NSDAP, verkleinerungen, anstecksnadeln, decorationen etc are mentioned. A recent thread on this forum featured a NSDAP LS miniature with the RZM number M11/1, which should be correct for NSDAP LS decorations. When was the sub-group M12/... founded (NSDAP LS miniatures). I know that RZM numbers are a totally different ballgame, but it would be interesting to know, especially since I can't find St.&L. amongst the M12 firms in any reference book.

    KR

    Peter

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    I haven't seen any original source documents which refer to the date of the introduction of the Lieferant number for the PK. It would make sense that whenever official government contracts began to be issued for awards, that a numbering system would have begun around the same time. Of course the military awards only began to appear after the outbreak of war so if the numbers were introduced in 1937 there wouldn't have been much use for them other than on Political awards.

    I think the real question is not so much a case of when the numbering system was introduced but one of when the use of these numbers to mark the manufacturers products was mandated. Generally speaking these numbers tend to appear on late war pieces however there are a number of exceptions - for instance Steinhauer & Lück's KVK1 are often found in early quality silver plated tombak, but with the PK number "4".

    So, I think the numbers may have been around for quite some time,possibly even before the LDO and certainly some early pieces may be found with PK numbers, but that these numbers were only widely used (in the sense of being stamped onto the awards) in the second half of the war.

    As an organisation, the Ordenskanzlei was certainly superior to the LDO which was only concerned with regulating the quality of copies of awards made for the commercial market, and had nothing to do with the official awards.

    Otto Schickle gained their licence in March 1941 and lost it soon afterwards. There is an entry in the July 1941 Schwert und Spaten indicating that Schickle had been given permission to sell off existing stock. Perhaps it may have just been a temporary revocation of their licence though for some misdemeanour ?.

    Afraid I can't help on the RZM numbers. I have no interest in Political awards and so have never made any attempt to study these numbers. I'm sure there will be some evidence or other in the pages of Schwert & Spaten/DUZ.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Thanks Gordon,

    The abovementioned type of KVK was actually on of the reasons for my inquiry. I'm still not clear about some aspects, but I'll stand down for the time being and see if I can figure out a way to put words to these complex questions.

    KR

    Peter

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    • 3 months later...

    Just for the sake of it a basic list which might save doing some looking up.

    Prasidialkanzlei Numbers.

    1 Deschler & Sohn, Munchen

    2 C.E. Juncker, Berlin

    3 Wilhelm Deumer, Ludenscheid

    4 Steinhauer und Luck, Ludenscheid

    5 Hermann Wernstein, Jena-Lobstedt

    6 Fritz Zimmermann, Stuttgart

    7 Paul meybauer, Berlin

    8 Ferdinand Hoffst?ter, Bonn am Rhein

    9 Liefergemeinschaft Pforzheimer Schmuckhandwerker

    10 Forster und Barth, Pforzheim

    11 Grossmann & Co., Wien

    12 Frank und Reif, Stuttgart

    13 Gustav Brehmer, Markneukirchen

    14 Lauer, N?rnberg

    15 Friedrich Orth, Wien

    16 Alois Rettenmaier, Sch?bisch Gmund

    17 Schwerin&Sohn, Berlin

    18 Karl Wurster KG, Markneukirchen

    19 E. Ferd. Wiedmann, Frankfurt an Main

    20 C.F. Zimmermann, Pforzheim

    21 Gebr. Godet & Co., Berlin

    22 B?rger & Co., Berlin

    23 Arbeitsgemeinschaft f?r Heeresbedarf

    24 Arbeitsgemeinschaft der Hanauer Plakettenhersteller, graveur und ziselierung, Berlin Hanau am Main

    25 Arbeitsgemeinschaft der graveur

    26 B.H. Mayer?s Kunstprageanstallt, Pforzheim

    27 Anton Schenkl?s Nachfolger, Wien

    28 Eugen Schmidthaussler, Pforzheim

    29 Hauptmunzamt, Berlin

    30 Hauptmunzamt, Wien

    31 Hans Gnad, Wien

    32 W. Hobacher, Wien

    33 Friederich Linden, Ludenscheid

    34 Willy Annetsberger, Munchen

    35 F.W. Assmann, Ludenscheid

    36 Bury & Leonhardt, Hanau

    37 Adold Baumeister, Ludenscheid

    38 AG MuK, Gablonz

    39 Rudolf Berge, Gablonz

    40 Berg & Nolte, Ludenscheid

    41 Gebr. Bender, Oberstein

    42 Bindermann & Co., Oberkassel bei Bonn

    43 Julius Bauer Sohne, Zella Mehlis

    44 Jacob bengel, Idar/Oberstein

    45 Franz Jungwwirth, Wien

    46 Hans Dopller, Wela Oberdonau

    47 Erhard & Sohne A.G., Schw?bisch-Gmund

    48 Richard Feix, Gablonz

    49 Richard Feix Sohne, Gablonz

    50 Karl Gschiermeister, Wien

    51 Eduard Gorlach &Sohne, Gablonz

    52 Gottlieb und Wagner, Idar/Oberstein

    53 Glaser & Sohn, Dresden

    54 Gebr?der Wegerhoff, L?denscheid

    55 J.E. Hammer & Sohne, Geringswalde

    56 Robert Hauschild, Pforzheim

    57 Karl Hensler, Pforzheim

    58 Arthur Jokel & Co., Gablonz

    59 Louis Keller, Oberstein

    60 Katz & Deyhle, Phorzheim

    61 Rudolf A. Karnethz & Sohn, Gablonz

    62 Kerbach & Osterhelt, Dresden

    63 Franz J. Klami & Sohn, Gablonz

    64 Gottlieb Fr. Kech & Sohn, Pforzheim

    65 Klein & Quenzer, Idar/Oberstein

    66 Friederich Keller, Oberstein

    67 H. Kreisel, Gablonz

    68 Alfred Klobloch, Gablonz

    69 Alois Klammer, Innsbruck

    70 Lind & Meyrer, Oberstein

    71 Rudolf Leukert, Gablonz

    72 Franz Lipp, Pforzheim

    73 Franz Mohnert, Gablonz

    74 Carl Maurer Sohn, Oberstein

    75 Franke&Co,L?denscheid

    76 Ernst L. Muller, Pforzheim

    77 Bayrische Hauptmunzamt, Munchen

    78 Gustav Miksch, Gablonz

    79 Matthias Kutsche, Attendorn

    80 G.H. Osang, Dresden

    81 Oberhoff & Cie., Ludenscheid

    82 Augustin Prager, Gablonz

    83 Emil Peukert, Gablonz

    84 Carl Pellath, Schrobenhausen

    85 Julius Pietsch, Gablonz

    86 Paulmann & Crone, Ludenscheid

    87 Roman Palme, Gablonz

    88 Werner Redo, Saarlautern

    89 Rudolf Richter, Schlag bei Gablonz

    90 August F. Richter KG, Hamburg

    91 Josef Rossler & Co., Gablonz

    92 Josef Ruckert & Sohn, Gablonz

    93 Richard Simm & Sohne, Gablonz

    94 Ossenberg-Engels, Iserlohn

    95 Adolf Scholze, Grunwald

    96 Robert Klein Wien

    97 AE Kochert, Wien

    98 Rudolf Souval, Wien

    99 Schwertner & Cie, Granz-Eggenberg

    100 Rudolf Wachtler & Lange, Mittweida

    101 Rudolf Tam, Gablonz

    102 Philipp Turka, Wien

    103 August G. Tam, Gablonz

    104 Heinrich Ulbricht?s Ws, Kaufing

    105 Heinrich Vogt, Pforzheim Schwanenstadt/Oberdonau

    106 Bruder Schneider AG, Wien

    107 Carl Wild, Hamburg

    108 Arno Wallpach, Salzburg

    109 Walter & Henlein, Gablonz

    110 Otto Zappe, Gablonz

    111 Zierner & Sohn, Oberstein

    112 Argentor Werke Rust & Hetzel, Wien

    113 Hermann Aurich, Dresden

    114 Ludwig Bertsch, Karsruhe

    115 Richard Sieper&S?hne, L?denscheid

    116 Funk & Bruningshaus, Ludenscheid

    117 Hugo Lang, Wiesenthal

    118 August Menze &Sohn, Wien

    119 Alfred Stubbe, Berlin

    120 Franz Petzl, Wien

    121 Imme&Sohn, Berlin

    122 J.J. Stahl, Strassburg

    123 Bech, Hassinger & Co., Strassburg

    124 Rudolf Schanes, Wien

    125 Eugen Gauss, Pforzheim

    126 Eduard Hann, Oberstein

    127 Mortiz Hausch AG, Pforzheim

    128 S. Jablonski & Co., Ludenscheid

    129 Frits Kohm, Pforzheim

    130 Wilhelm Schroder & Co., Ludenscheid

    131 Heinrich Wander, Gablonz

    132 Franz Reischauer, Idar/Oberstein

    134 Otto Klein & Co., Hanau

    135 Julius Mosersen, Oberstein

    136 J Wagner & Sohn Berlin

    137 J H Werner Berlin

    138 Julius Maurer Oberstein

    139 Hymmen & Co Ludenschied

    140 Schauerte & Hohfeld Ludenscheid

    141 Sohni Heubach & Co Oberstein

    142 A D Schwerdt Stuttgart

    LDO Leistungs Gemeinschaft der Deutscher Ordenshersteller Numbers.

    L/10 Deschler & Sohn, Munchen

    L/11 Wilhelm Deumer, Ludenscheid

    L/12 C.E. Junker, Berlin

    L/13 Paul Meybauer, Berlin

    L/14 Friedrich Orth, Wien

    L/15 Otto Schickle, Pforzheim

    L/16 Steinhauer & Luck, Ludenscheid

    L/17 Hermann Wernstein, Jena Lobstedt

    L/18 B.H. Meyer?s Hofkunstprageanstalt, Pforzheim

    L/19 Ferdinand Hoddstatter, Bonn

    L/21 Forster & Barth, Pforzheim

    L/22 Glaser & Sohn, Dresden

    L/23 Julius Maurer, Oberstein

    L/24 Frits Zimmermann, Stuttgart

    L/25 A.E. Kochert, Wien

    L/26 Klein & Quenzer, Idar Oberstein

    L/50 Gebr?der Godet, Berlin

    L/51 E. Ferdinand Wiedmann, Frankfurt a. M.

    L/52 C.F. Zimmermann, Pforzheim a. Main

    L/53 Hymmer & CO., Ludenscheid

    L/54 Schauerte & Hohfeld, Ludenscheid

    L/55 Rudolph W?chtler & Lange, Mittweida

    L/56 Funcke & Bruningshaus

    L/57 Boerger (B?rger) & Co, Berlin

    L/58 Rudolf Souval, Wien

    L/59 Alouis Rettenmaier, Schwabisch-Gmund

    L/60 Gustav Brehmer, markneukirchen

    L/61 Friederich Linden, Ludenscheid

    L/62 Werner Redo, Saarlautern

    L/63 G.H. Osang, Dresden

    L/64 Asmann & Sohm, Ludenscheid

    L/65 Franke & Co. KG, Ludenscheid

    L/66 A.D. Schwerdt, Stuttgart

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    • 1 year later...
    • 4 months later...

    Just for the sake of it a basic list which might save doing some looking up.

    Prasidialkanzlei Numbers.

    ...

    17 Schwerin&Sohn, Berlin

    ...

    38 AG MuK, Gablonz

    ...

    54 Gebr?der Wegerhoff, Lüdenscheid

    ...

    75 Franke&Co,Lüdenscheid

    ...

    94 Ossenberg-Engels, Iserlohn

    ...

    96 Robert Klein Wien

    97 AE Kochert, Wien

    ...

    115 Richard Sieper&Söhne, Lüdenscheid

    ...

    121 Imme&Sohn, Berlin

    ...

    133 Otto Schickle, Pforzheim

    ...

    ...

    This list from Chairman is very interesting but puzzling. In other listings of PFL numbers from other sources, all of the above numbers are listed as 'unknown' whereas here there they are all assigned to various makers, including, I see, Richard Sieper as 115. (I deleted the other non-questioned numbers from the quoted list to highlight the ones in question.)

    What is the reference for this list? Is there any proof for the above assignments? This would be an important question to clear up.

    Best regards,

    ---Norm

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    • 2 years later...

    Hello! I just wanted to know, it's not exactly makers marking, but I want to ask about Hindenburg Cross I've collecting. In the front of the medal, there's years marked. And according to maker, the number/numeral comes with different FONT sizes. My question is, like Mayer&Wilhelm comes with 11pt? sizes. Twer&Turck comes with 8pt sizes. Are the FONT sizes set for each makers?

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Pls excuse me, I have another question regarding Hindenburg maker marks. I sincerely hope? that I will be.... Anyway, I have a Hindenburg Cross, combatant, and it is without maker mark behind. Is it considered fake? Also I suspect there are over hundred different maker markings. May I suspect that this is due to the fact that there was 121 battles during WW1? I really imagining, is it? Looking forward for your.....answer.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    • 9 years later...
    On 04/11/2009 at 18:09, Norm F said:

     

     

    This list from Chairman is very interesting but puzzling. In other listings of PFL numbers from other sources, all of the above numbers are listed as 'unknown' whereas here there they are all assigned to various makers, including, I see, Richard Sieper as 115. (I deleted the other non-questioned numbers from the quoted list to highlight the ones in question.)

     

    What is the reference for this list? Is there any proof for the above assignments? This would be an important question to clear up.

     

    Best regards,

    ---Norm

    I'm bringing this topic back to the top and include the announcement from St&L, specifically the reference to page 12.

     

    cheers

    Peter213650767_St_LGW.JPG.c8af910b199a0e389e32459710276477.JPG

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    • 2 weeks later...

    Hi Gordon, 

     

      I had a question specifically on World War 1 wound badge maker markings. I have seen a few badges from companies such as 4 Steinhauer und Luck, Ludenscheid, L/54 Schauerte & Hohfeld, Ludenscheid & L/56 Funcke & Bruningshaus.  Do you know of any official of compiled information of what companies manufactured World War 1 wound badges during the Third Reich time frame when LDO marking were instituted? 

     

    Regards,

    On 30/04/2005 at 11:45, Gordon Williamson said:

    On the subject of the actual markings themselves, during the Third Reich period anyone who had lost their award could obtain a free "official" replacement through the Pr?sidialkanzlei, purchase an additional piece "officially" or buy one at their own expense via the LDO retail outlets, ( these LDO marked pieces were in the terminology of the time referred to as Copies , Replicas or Restrikes).

    Note that this facility to obtain official replacements does not just relate to awards instituted during the Third Reich. A soldier for example, who possessed the 1914 Iron Cross First Class and lost or had his award damaged, could obtain an official replacement, and this would be appropriately marked with a Pr?sidialkanzlei Lieferant number, such as "4" for Steinhauer.

     

    If he elected to purchase his own privately just because he wanted an extra example, it would be marked with the LDO number.

     

    How many recipients would wish to pay for an over the counter copy when they could obtain an official relacement free? LDO pieces were considered restrikes, copies or replicas, not proper awards. Original period manufacturers catalogues attest to this

     

    As far as dual marked crosses are concerned, as the LDO marks predate the Pr?sidialkanzlei marks, it is likely that these were initially LDO marked then had the PK number added when they were used to complete an order from the Pr?sidialkanzlei.

     

    Attached is a declaration relating to LDO markings from a 1941 Steinhauer catalogue. Note the reference to the L-16 LDO number being used on "Nachbildungen" (i.e. Copies or Reproductions)

     

    In 1941 the retail sale of high grade decorations such as the Knights Cross and above was forbidden. Retailers were allowed to retain only display samples and all others had to be handed in to the Ordenskanzlei, the manufacturers being compensated appropriately. These LDO marked pieces ( like Juncker L/12 Knight's Crosses, L/50 marked Godet Oakleaves etc) were subsequently used as official award pieces.

     

    There is no evidence that any lower grade LDO marked pieces such as War Badges, EK1s, KVKs etc were ever used as formal award pieces.

    post-101-1114875692.jpg

    post-101-1114875692.jpg

     

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    • 2 years later...

    Hello

    QUESTION

    l have a KVK II w/sword, ring mark 92, i have never seen another with 92 mark, or im not looking to well, has that maker, made these kvk,s thank you

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Create an account or sign in to comment

    You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

    Create an account

    Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

    Register a new account

    Sign in

    Already have an account? Sign in here.

    Sign In Now
    ×
    ×
    • Create New...

    Important Information

    We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.