Another medal

[ray11]

Looking for information on a medal called1914-1919 BAHAWALPUR CAMEL FORCE MEDAL AWARDED TO 784.NAICK MOHAMMAD SHAH BAHWLP and it says transt.cps. any info would be help full thanks,Ray

Edited July 18, 2014 by ray11

[Mervyn Mitton]

This must be a local issue medal - the reverse certainly doesn't look like King George 5th - although he has a chestful

of awards. Bahawalpur may be an Indian State - perhaps the portrait is of the Maharajah ? Mervyn

[Hugh]

This looks to me like the Bahawalpur Northwest Frontier Medal 1914-1919 - Item 15 under Bahawalpur section of Tony McGlenaghan's book, Indian Princely Medals, (p. 33). Bahawalpur is indeed an Indian princely state which opted to join Pakistan at the time of Partition. It border on the Indian state of Rajahstan. I've been there once for tank exercises with the Army. VERY hot.

Quoting from McGlenaghan, it is also "referred to "...as North West Frontier Medal 1914-1918, Frontier Service 1914-1920 and Indian Frontier Medal 1914-19." The obverse is the Type 3 bust of the young Sadiq Muhammed Khan V in full dress military uniform without headdress. The English translation of the inscription is said to be, "By the Grace of God Sadiq Muhammed Abassi Fifth. Ruler of God Gifted Kingdom of Bahawalpur". Size should be 37mm. The medal is known in both gilt medal and bronze; it is unknown whether a silver version exists. McGlenahan does not give a translation of the inscription on the reverse side, which has a mounted sowar as shown in your image. The 26mm ribbon is pale pink with a 2.5mm pale blue stripes edged with a fine black line 2.5mm from each edge. The medal was designed by Spink. Naming is impressed in capitals.

Thanks to Mr. McGlenahan for his data.

Does this correspond with your medal?

Edited July 19, 2014 by Hugh

[ray11]

I just noticed that it says Spink London on the second photo that must mean something i would think,no?Ray

[ray11]

This looks to me like the Bahawalpur Northwest Frontier Medal 1914-1919 - Item 15 under Bahawalpur section of Tony McGlenaghan's book, Indian Princely Medals, (p. 33). Bahawalpur is indeed an Indian princely state which opted to join Pakistan at the time of Partition. It border on the Indian state of Rajahstan. I've been there once for tank exercises with the Army. VERY hot.

Quoting from McGlenaghan, it is also "referred to "...as North West Frontier Medal 1914-1918, Frontier Service 1914-1920 and Indian Frontier Medal 1914-19." The obverse is the Type 3 bust of the young Sadiq Muhammed Khan V in full dress military uniform without headdress. The English translation of the inscription is said to be, "By the Grace of God Sadiq Muhammed Abassi Fifth. Ruler of God Gifted Kingdom of Bahawalpur". Size should be 37mm. The medal is known in both gilt medal and bronze; it is unknown whether a silver version exists. McGlenahan does not give a translation of the inscription on the reverse side, which has a mounted sowar as shown in your image. The 26mm ribbon is pale pink with a 2.5mm pale blue stripes edged with a fine black line 2.5mm from each edge. The medal was designed by Spink. Naming is impressed in capitals.

Thanks to Mr. McGlenahan for his data.

Does this correspond with your medal?

Yes it sure does and thank you a whole bunch for that. Any idea where one may find such a ribbon?I must try to find that book.and again thanks.Ray

[Hugh]

The curse of collecting medals from Bahawalpur is that they are often offered without ribbon, and no one seems to know where to find replacements. The other caveat is that apparently there was a firm in England (somewhere in the North?) which was counterfeiting some of these medals. In my youth and innocence , I bought a couple of these, which came with lovely new ribbons which match the descriptions in McGlenahan's book. There was a thread about them here some years ago, but I don't think the seller was identified. Perhaps someone will be able to resurrect it. Perhaps it might lead you to a source for ribbon. Good luck.

Hugh

[ray11]

The curse of collecting medals from Bahawalpur is that they are often offered without ribbon, and no one seems to know where to find replacements. The other caveat is that apparently there was a firm in England (somewhere in the North?) which was counterfeiting some of these medals. In my youth and innocence , I bought a couple of these, which came with lovely new ribbons which match the descriptions in McGlenahan's book. There was a thread about them here some years ago, but I don't think the seller was identified. Perhaps someone will be able to resurrect it. Perhaps it might lead you to a source for ribbon. Good luck.

Hugh

Well all i can say is you are a powerhouse of information as are a couple of other people in this great forum. Best,Ray

[ray11]

So perhaps this should have gone in to the south Asia thread . maybe one of the moderators would be good to put it there if thats the case. thank you,Ray

[ray11]

The curse of collecting medals from Bahawalpur is that they are often offered without ribbon, and no one seems to know where to find replacements. The other caveat is that apparently there was a firm in England (somewhere in the North?) which was counterfeiting some of these medals. In my youth and innocence , I bought a couple of these, which came with lovely new ribbons which match the descriptions in McGlenahan's book. There was a thread about them here some years ago, but I don't think the seller was identified. Perhaps someone will be able to resurrect it. Perhaps it might lead you to a source for ribbon. Good luck.

Hugh

Hugh if you know would you please post what transt.cps. means? thanks,Ray

[Hugh]

Others are better sources than I, but I'd say Transport(ation) Corps.

H

[peter monahan]

I'm late to this thread, but I'd agree with Hugh on the unit - Transportation Corps - and the difficulty in getting good ribbons. S.A. Gongs is probably the likeliest place to get answers though, as the site owner is very very knowledgeable about medals from the sub-continent.

[Hugh]

I second Peter's comments. Ed Haynes is as knowledgeable on South Asia as you'll find.

H

[Ulsterman]

Ed is also on Facebook. He can tell you everything you need to know and may have extra ribbons.

[Tariq Gilani]

Halo Gentlemen,

Seems this the perfect place to start. I am from Bahawalpur-Pakistan & my parent battalion was 8 Baloch Regiment. In my father's time (Malaya 1939-45) it was 1st Bahawalpur Infantry (Sadiq Battalion) and during another war (1914-19) it was Bahawalpur Mounted Rifles and Camel Transport. Hope that helps and Ray, the medal is ok. I don't know if one could post a pic and if yes how. I would have posted a pic of the medal with ribbon. Last, the medal in question was instituted by Nawab Sir Sadiq Muhammad Khan Abbasi V, in 1920 to recognise the services of state troops who relieved British Forces for overseas service by taking over their duties on the North West Frontier & who subsequently served during the Third Afghan War 1n 1919. Awarded in two classes, a gilt metal medal for officers and bronze for other ranks.

Regards

[Hugh]

Welcome, Tariq,

It's good to see a Pakistani on this forum. I wonder if some of the military tailors in Lahore might have supplies of old for some of these rare medals. In the years when I was visiting Pakistan regularly, I know the tailors in Rawalpindi and Karachi had items from many decades past. This might be a solution to ribbon problems.

Best,

Hugh

[peter monahan]

Yes, welcome aboard, Tariq. One of my life long interests is the old British Indian Army and its successor units and its nice to have someone with expertise - i consider myself only a dabbler - in this often obscure branch of military history and collecting.

Peter

[Tariq Gilani]

Thank you Hugh & Peter for the welcome.

Tailors in Lahore & Karachi had their old medal and ribbon stocks bought off by collectors long before they wisened up. Bahawalpur medals & ribbons are not available for sale over the counter like old times. With the ruler of Bahawalpur state and his army gone (God bless their souls) Bahawalpur militaria is hard to find but not impossible.

Peter, to be honest, I am no expert either, just a dabbler as you put it who hopes to be useful. My Battalion was raised in 1827, which is not much, merely 188 years old.

Regards

[paul wood]

Welcome Tariq,

Look forward to hearing from you in the future. As a collector of the Indian subcontinent most of the interesting actions took part in modern Pakistan (North West Frontier). Bahawalpur produced several Orders and Medals of which I am fortunate to own a few, luckily my NWF Medal has its original ribbon.

All the best.

Paul

[Hugh]

Just shows how long it's been since I've been to Pakistan. Oh, well.

Hugh

[922F]

Paul [email kap73p@aol.com] has some Bahawal ribbons for sale including the Bahawal-Pak alliance medal and WW II medal; do not believe he has Northwest Frontier but may be worth asking. Spink's denied having any Bahawal ribbon from 1979 on but it seems the North UK dealer got some from them.

I have sought Imtiaz-i-Sutlej, Imtiaz-i-Haroonia and Imtiaz-i-Abasia ribbon for about 35 years with very little success; if anyone finds a source, please let me know.

The Bahawalphur Museum had an excellent display of almost all State Decorations gifted by the Nawab in about 1960. In the mid 1980s, the Nawab gifted additional duplicates, ribbon and cases there. I understand the museum sold some of these when they had large quantities, mainly ribbons.

Qureshi and Kasbati's Medals Catalog of Pakistan [Karachi, 2009] is another useful reference for Bahawalphur.

Thread readers may enjoy this 'famous chest' -- needless to say that an equal or greater number of awards received by this person are NOT represented hereon!!!

Edited January 6, 2015 by 922F

[Hugh]

I'll bite - who is it?

Hugh

[peter monahan]

That is indeed an impressive 'chest'. I suspect some of our 'foreign medals' experts can make more of it than but from the ribbons ahead of the British cluster and the Pakistani ones after, a head of state from one of the princely states which went to Pakistan on Partition.

Only 188 years old, you say? My nation - Canada - will be 150 years old next year! And our oldest buildings here - there are a few in Quebec City - are less than 400 years old. Nothing to some of the shrines and fortresses in your part of the world.

Peter

[922F]

Hugh,

Sequence of Bahawal Orders/medals [plus having ALL of them!], UK WW I and II medals and UK coronations yields a strong hint--I'd like to give our Pakistani colleague first crack as he probably will be shocked and delighted to see this.

[922F]

Peter, you're on right track, this is one of Nawab General Sir Sadiq Muhammad Khan V Abbasi of Bahawalpur's ribbon groups. It lacks representation of his British Imperial Order ribbons as well as his other Indian Princely State, Iraqi, Lebanese, Egyptian, Italian, and additional foreign decoration ribbons.

Just found http://www.militaria.co.uk/medal_ribbons.asp?CatName=INDIA&SubCatName=INDIAN%20STATE%20FORCES%20-%20BAHAWALPUR&parentid=1931&catid=2126 [ Jeremy Tenniswood 36 St Botolph's Street, Colchester, Essex, CO2 7EA, UK • Tel: +44 (0)1206 368787 Email: info@militaria.co.uk] offering BAHAWALPUR NORTH WEST FRONTIER MEDAL 1914-19 medal ribbon plus a couple of other Bahawalpur medal ribbons.

[peter monahan]

"It lacks representation of his British Imperial Order ribbons as well as his other Indian Princely State, Iraqi, Lebanese, Egyptian, Italian, and additional foreign decoration ribbons."

 

Clearly the Nawab needed a larger chest!