Chris Boonzaier Posted March 10, 2006 Author Posted March 10, 2006 Your man was in the 12th Bavarian Inf. Regt. of the 2nd bavarian Division.... a really well rated assault division....
Chris Boonzaier Posted March 10, 2006 Author Posted March 10, 2006 Interesting Promotion document. I am sure Rick will find the wording interesting, probably Glenn as well.... and the altered stamp...
Chris Boonzaier Posted March 10, 2006 Author Posted March 10, 2006 EK docs to follow.........................................................................
Chris Boonzaier Posted March 10, 2006 Author Posted March 10, 2006 OK, I have over 400 EK docs.... about 6-7 have a specific action mentioned (I mena more precise than just the name of a battle)...The EK1 in this group has a very specific action mentioned.....
Chris Boonzaier Posted March 10, 2006 Author Posted March 10, 2006 And the EK2 just KILLS me.......... I will be able to follow this one step by step in Verdun at the end of the month, to within a few mwters of the actual trail he was on....
Kurt Donch Posted March 10, 2006 Posted March 10, 2006 What a great group of documents. Also of note, he was a "Offizier-Stellvertreter" when he was awarded the ECII in 1916, but had become a reserve 2nd lieutenant by the time of his other war-time award, even getting an earlier formal date of promotion (the 'promotion' document shown). Meaning, he rose to officer status (albeit "der Reserve") from the ranks. If the Bavarians did it anything like the Prussians, this can't have happened too often. After all, the 'semi'-ranks of Offz.-Stellv. and Feldw.-Lt. were aimed precisely at giving selected NCOs officer responsibilities without actually making them part of the caste. His civilian occupation as "Kaufmann" would fit: This term could of course theoretically denote the chairman of a large industrial group, but more probably describes a shop-keeper, i.e. someone of lower middle-class background, well-respected in his community but not quite officer class according to the standards of the day.Kind regards, KurtAnd the EK2 just KILLS me.......... I will be able to follow this one step by step in Verdun at the end of the month, to within a few mwters of the actual trail he was on....
Chris Boonzaier Posted March 10, 2006 Author Posted March 10, 2006 What a great group of documents. Also of note, he was a "Offizier-Stellvertreter" when he was awarded the ECII in 1916, but had become a reserve 2nd lieutenant by the time of his other war-time award, even getting an earlier formal date of promotion (the 'promotion' document shown). Meaning, he rose to officer status (albeit "der Reserve") from the ranks. If the Bavarians did it anything like the Prussians, this can't have happened too often. After all, the 'semi'-ranks of Offz.-Stellv. and Feldw.-Lt. were aimed precisely at giving selected NCOs officer responsibilities without actually making them part of the caste. His civilian occupation as "Kaufmann" would fit: This term could of course theoretically denote the chairman of a large industrial group, but more probably describes a shop-keeper, i.e. someone of lower middle-class background, well-respected in his community but not quite officer class according to the standards of the day.Kind regards, KurtI wish I knew when he joined the Regt :-( Pity there are no ealrier documents to help track his career. The seller still has a couple of things from him including another document, I will be calling him in the morning to beg it off him in trade.
Chris Boonzaier Posted March 10, 2006 Author Posted March 10, 2006 The II. Batl. had lost many men in the fighting the weeks before. At the time when he won the EK2 they were resting in the second line and at the same time formed 16 groups of "carriers" to take stuff forward to the men of the I. and III. Batln's. All trips were done through the heaviest artillery fire and at great risk.A document with Fort Douaumont mentioned on it is pretty much the holy grail of researchable EK docs.
Guest Rick Research Posted March 11, 2006 Posted March 11, 2006 NOW THERE IS A REGIMENT TO COLLECT!!!!!!!!!!!!! From these it looks like they must have put abbreviated citations on ALL their awards which isfor anybody who doesn't know WW1 German award paperworkF-R-E-A-K-I-N' A-M-A-Z-I-N-G.Unparallelled, in my experience of the very few and very far between random ones that turn up so.You need the WW1 regimental history (it must be AMAZING if their routine paperwork was this extraordinary) andto see if the Bavarian Kriegsarchiv might be wheedled into coughing up hisAuszug aus der Kriegsrangliste.There was a regular Moser in Inf Regt 4-- Hauptmann Robert-- possibly a brother? He was gazetted both classes of the W?rttemberg Friedrichs-Orden (Ritter 2X 2 May 1916 replaced by Ritter 1X 13.12.16).You must have been very good in a PREVIOUS life, that's all I can say.
Chris Boonzaier Posted March 11, 2006 Author Posted March 11, 2006 I am very, very happy. I will be calling the seller to see if I can get the Ritter2x document today. I bought the regt history, but it is not very detailed. i guess I am going to have to consider going down to the Bavarian archives at some stage with a list of my bavarian documents.Why do the Mosers all seem to have W?rtemburg medals?
Chris Boonzaier Posted March 11, 2006 Author Posted March 11, 2006 I am very, very happy. I will be calling the seller to see if I can get the Ritter2x document today. I bought the regt history, but it is not very detailed. i guess I am going to have to consider going down to the Bavarian archives at some stage with a list of my bavarian documents.Why do the Mosers all seem to have W?rtemburg medals?I am happy to say the seller has agreed to sell me the missing doc, thereby completing the set. he has a couple of the medals but they are not up for grabs....At least the docs are complete now....
Guest Rick Research Posted March 11, 2006 Posted March 11, 2006 The regimental "chief" was the king of W?rttemberg, but YOUR Moser also lived there afterwards, so perhaps he was a "dual national."I have a ribbon bar to a WW2 general who received his Friedrich mit X apparently because although a Bavarian officer, he was BORN in W?rttemberg.That's too bad about the regimental history... so no pea sized group photo face of him, either?Let me know when you plan on hitting up the Kriegsarchiv-- I have ONE reservist I've always wanted to get more information on, but back then they wouldn't release it. He got his MVO4X in 1915 as "Leutnant der Reserve ausser Dienst" (!!!) and served in two regiments during the war but-- you guessed it-- the one I turned up has not a mention of him.
Chris Boonzaier Posted March 11, 2006 Author Posted March 11, 2006 Let me know when you plan on hitting up the Kriegsarchiv-- I have ONE reservist I've always wanted to get more information on, but back then they wouldn't release it. He got his MVO4X in 1915 as "Leutnant der Reserve ausser Dienst" (!!!) and served in two regiments during the war but-- you guessed it-- the one I turned up has not a mention of him.One day baby... one day......According to the seller the Besitzzeugnis has many notes on the back, awarded from a W?rt. Div, but lots of notes made on it by various authorities who had to approve it for him to be allowwed to wear it.
JensF. Posted March 12, 2006 Posted March 12, 2006 Very very nice!!! I have the Regimentsgeschichte of the 12. b. IR on CD if this helps...
Bob Hunter Posted March 12, 2006 Posted March 12, 2006 Maybe not to kill for but certainly maim and cripple! Wonderful group.
Glenn J Posted March 12, 2006 Posted March 12, 2006 Also of note, he was a "Offizier-Stellvertreter" when he was awarded the ECII in 1916, but had become a reserve 2nd lieutenant by the time of his other war-time award, even getting an earlier formal date of promotion (the 'promotion' document shown). Meaning, he rose to officer status (albeit "der Reserve") from the ranks. If the Bavarians did it anything like the Prussians, this can't have happened too often. Although I would generally agree with Kurt that the rank of Offizierstellvertreter was utilized by career NCOS in officer positions it was not uniquely so. Certainly in the earlier phase of the war many Vizefeldwebel der Reserve (i.e. former "One Year Volunteers" and reserve officer aspirants) were appointed to Offizierstellvertreter prior to commissioning. The Kriegs-Besoldungs-Vorschrift (D.V.E. Nr. 101) stipulated prewar who could be appointed as an Offizierstellvertreter by the regimental or independent battalion commander:a. Active F?hnriche and Fahnenjunker (Unteroffiziere). b. Vizefeldwebel and Unteroffiziere of the Reserve/Landwehr who possessed the certificate of competence to be a reserve or Landwehr officer (Offizier-Aspiranten).c. Former officer aspirants.And then if further need arose:d. Active Feldwebel and Vizefeldwebel.e. By Landwehr and Landsturm units - former active NCOs.RegardsGlenn
Chris Boonzaier Posted March 16, 2006 Author Posted March 16, 2006 Okay... last part arrived today.....
Chris Boonzaier Posted March 16, 2006 Author Posted March 16, 2006 The back is the best part... you can see the notes by the division, forwarding it to the brigade, who forward it to thwe regt, who send it to the batln, who send it to the hospital.....
David Gregory Posted March 16, 2006 Posted March 16, 2006 Excellent group! Looking forward to walking the route he took at Verdun at the end of the month.
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