Pakistani Medal Bars- Real?

[WPS2018]

Found these two good looking bars. From my perspective they seem legit, as far as I know all the medals are within an appropriate time-span. However, before I purchase them I'd like second opinions. Thoughts?

 

Note: These are the only pictures on the website.

Thanks,

 

- Nick

 

[922F]

Likely legit as not much profit in faking Pakistani groups.  Really need to see each group back side & pin.   From time to time, a military tailor's label may be sewn on the reverse of the bar upper ribbons.

Star-I-Herb '65 & '71 in first group. should be named.   Sometimes the Hijri 1401 medal [last one first group]  is named on the rim but not often in my experience.  In the second group the long service medals {3 & 4} may be named.  

[WPS2018]

The first group is indeed named. As for the second one I don't think it is as it isn't provided. Will ask for closer pictures of the front and back. I also agree with you in the sense that there isn't really a big incentive to fake Pakistani groups, but with my limited experience I wanted to be sure. My only Pakistani medals are singles and I've been trying to hunt down some Pakistani bars for a solid few months. Also, what would the going price be for these?

Thanks,

 

- Nick

[paul wood]

I'm afraid with mounted Pakistani groups the rule is guilty until proved innocent as although they are not valuable medals, especially where there is a named medals in the group, then a few extra rupees can be made by placing additions.

Paul

 

[peter monahan]

I also understand - Paul may be able to cofirm or deny - that extra medals are easily obtained from tailors' stocks and other places, so making up groups is easy if it seems worth doing.  Ed Haynes South Asian Gongs site might provide som einsights on this.

Peter

[paul wood]

Peter is absolutely right, extra medals are easily obtained from various sources including tailors stock. So a named single 1965 War medal can have another 6 or 7 medals added to it to sex it up and unless it is an officer's group impossible to confirm the entitlement. The most dangerous area though is where IGS 36's or Independence medals are sexed up with WWII medals and stars. At the Britannia fair I saw a 2 bar IGS 1936 to a WWII Dogra POW with various attachment which from the ribbon bar was clear had been added quite recently. It was a shame because I would have happily bought the  IGS as a singleton but was not prepared to pay an extra £60 for the additions.

Paul

 

[Brian Wolfe]

I find the un-named groups of Pakistani medals most interesting and much like the common un-named British (and Canadian) WWII groups represent a period of history in themselves.  Certainly one should be careful not to pay a lot for un-named groups they are well worth collecting and study.  Sadly research into any group is almost impossible.

Please keep us updated on your decision to add these to your collection.

Regards

Brian

 

[peter monahan]

When I first had money for medals - some decades ago now - I began collecting to members of the Indian Army [pre '47] which were dirt cheap because they were 'unresearchable'.  Eventually I got a few groups to Native and British Officers, about whom some info. was available, but I was always mostly satisifed to be able to associate a medal or group to an OR with a battalion and campaign if not the man who won them.

The amount of info. available today about obscure campaigns and units, on the web and through reprinted rolls etc, is an order of magnitude greater than it was even 15 years ao and i suspect that that trend will continue.  There is clearly beginning to be some interest in collecting, for example, to the modern IA and I'm hoping that will spur someone out there to start writing good histories of some of the untis and campaigns.  Locating data on individual soldiers will still likely be catch as catch can, but for me that is hald the fun anyway.

My two devalued Canadian censt worth!

Peter

[WPS2018]

I haven't gotten pictures of the back yet, the seller is out of town and said he'll get back to me ASAP. I'm kind of 50/50 on adding them to my collection, but these are the only ones I can find on a militaria site.

[Laurence Strong]

Here's my take on them....

 

1st Bar in order shown

Sitara-i-Harb 1965  - Instituted 1965

Sitara-i-Harb 1971  - Instituted 1971

Tamja-i-Jang 1965 - Instituted 1965

Tamja-i-Jang 1971 - Instituted 1971

Quaid-e-Azam 100th year  - Instituted 1976

Hirji Tamja  - Instituted 1979

 

The largest flag for me is a 14 year career and no "10 year service medal". I would also kind of except to see a Tamgha-i-Difaa with the 1965 bar

 

2nd bar

Tamja-i-Baqa  - Instituted 1998

Tamja-i-Jang 1971 - Instituted 1971 - but no Sitara-i-Harb 1971 

10 year Service medal

20 year Service medal

Quadra-i-Pakistan  - Instituted 1990

Independence Golden Jubilee  - Instituted 1998

 

The only flag I see is the Tamja-i-Baqa  should be the last/second last medal on the bar.

 

Bear in mind these are my opinions and finding accurate info on Pakistani medals is sparse at best.

 

 

Cheers

Larry

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[peter monahan]

Well done that man, for checking the books and doing the math.  So, sounds as if Group 1 might be dodgy.

As with any other collectable, the bottom line has to be 'Will I think it was money well spent in X weeks / months / years from now?'  Neither group has any rarities, if that makes a difference, so its down to price and how much you want to wet your feet in this particualr collecting pool.