Medal Bar Question.....

[medalnet]

I just received this medal bar. The man who wore it was Johann Richard Wilhelm Fuhr, Major a.D.:

What ribbon is on position number two? Is it the Hanseatic cross? The red stripes are rather small for it, but then....?!

[Guest Rick Research]

I don't know what else it COULD be, if there is no pale blue hidden away from fading for a Hessian General Decoration medal.

ZEUG-Major aD Fuhr only shows an artillery depot affiliation in the Honor Rank List, typical "under-reporting" of the actual war services of these technical officers.

[Paul C]

Do you have the Major's documents. How do you know it was his?

[medalnet]

Do you have the Major's documents. How do you know it was his?

Got it directly from his grand-grand son, together with the medals from Ernst Kempfer. Fuhr was his father in law.

[medalnet]

I don't know what else it COULD be, if there is no pale blue hidden away from fading for a Hessian General Decoration medal.

I didn't see any blue, but will check again.

[HeikoGrusdat]

I would say that it is definately NOT the Hamburg hanseatic cross - completely different wide of the stripes.

Can you post a very very closeup of the ribbon and maybe of the small ribbon from the lapel bow too...

Edited March 25, 2006 by HeikoGrusdat

[Guest Rick Research]

Not much else it CAN be. If it is the Hessian General Decoration with that pale pale blue faded away to white, as so commonly happens, then the reverse in the folds, or underneath on the lapel bow should still show some sky blue color. That was my first thought based on the red stripes size.

An ordnance depot officer sure didn't get the Lippe-Detmold Order for Arts & Sciences during the war!

[HeikoGrusdat]

OK, guessing is allowed, please kill me if I am total wrong... here are just some thoughts what it could be from the colours.... and as it is the second position directly after the IC why not a livesaving medal...

Hessen wedding medal 1894

Volksstaat Hessen Livesaving medal 1927-34

L?beck livesaving medal 1909-18

[medalnet]

here are just some thoughts what it could be from the colours.... and as it is the second position directly after the IC why not a livesaving medal...

Heiko,

I had that thought, too. here is a close up of the ribbons. Definetly no blue. I am just thinking that the red stripes are just too narrow to be for the Hanseatic cross.

Fuhr was born March 28, 1861 in Gollnow died March 11, 1937 in Berlin-Friedenau, so a true Prussian. Hessen Lifesavings medal would only make sense if he would have gotten it during an assignment down there?! Luebeck? No, because only the ribbon was worn, not the medal. I guess it will be Hanseatic Cross, just because of the little black spot on the ribbon. I start to believe that it must be a cross.

[attachmentid=32062]

[Christian L]

is it possible that the ribbon is for some kind of veterans association medal, as he wears the honor-legion medal after the ek but before all the other official medals?

christian

[HeikoGrusdat]

?hem, maybe too simple but.... is there a possibility to ask the grand-grand-son you have got it from....??? Maybe he has any informations on the orders, any uniform photo with medal bar or knows if he was in Hessen or somewhere else...?

And again and forever... this is not a hanseatic cross!!!

[medalnet]

?hem, maybe too simple but.... is there a possibility to ask the grand-grand-son you have got it from....??? Maybe he has any informations on the orders, any uniform photo with medal bar or knows if he was in Hessen or somewhere else...?

And again and forever... this is not a hanseatic cross!!!

Believe me, I have been bugging him several times per email and by phone, but there is nothing else. His mother kept those few things in the ususal box. after passing away in a retirement home this was all thats is left. The usual. Lets face it. How can still read Suetterlin and make sense of those old documents. While living in Germany and advertising in the local newspapers all paper was always destroyed because of this.

I was only able to get document with a pre 1918 medal bar ones.

A very sad fact.

[Christian L]

after looking and thinking more and more on the bar, i'd say, that the missing award is a foreign decoration which was awarded during the war.

veterans award - no, as if he would have been entitled for wearing the honor legion medal at the time he ordered the lapel bow he would have worn it there as well or he prefered an "official" lapel bow - with the orders and medals in the official way mounted - so the missing award is the last one.

so i'd say, this order was awarded during the war and was related to "something-real" not like his awards he choose to wear behind his honor legion medal on the medalbar (as a way of showing his way of preference) and the lapel bow as the official way.

(hard to explain my thinkings of the bar - even in german )

but i would say - foreign wartime award!

christian

[Ulsterman]

There is another avenue of investigation:

Try the Bundesarchiv and look for the war diary of that artillery park. Also, wasn't there a Zeug-officers' association? They might have more in an obit.-or even an obit in his local newspaper.

[Guest Rick Research]

Hmm. I had discounted this because it appears that something was REMOVED from the Frackspange but given this guy's DEPOT function and that ribbon being last on his lapel bow, maybe Christian's right...

what if this was one of those DUMB 1920s "fashion statement" medal bar mountings of

the Turkish War Medal star

on correct rear area, war effort, no combat "white red" ribbon rather than the frontline red-white?

Hmmm.

That IS a very odd round hole up there high on the ribbon-- where the ball tip of a TWM was stuck in?

Though a "close enough" Hamburg still gets my vote.

[Ulsterman]

How about Wer Ists? Is he in there at all?

[Christian L]

here a picture of a soldier with a removed decoration in the last place (might this be the same one?)

[medalnet]

If you look closely, you will see a black spot on the ribbon. This and other hints proof that there was a medal, rather a cross on that position.

[HeikoGrusdat]

Ah you specialists....

this is a typical Weimar madness medal bar... the last two ribbons are the same!!! One with the colonial lion on the ribbon and one for the colonial lion on the breast (1. and 2.class, combattant and non-combattant - however you want...) . You can see the very top of the breast lion down in the picture.

[Kronenorden]

In my opinion it can be this reussian Award. Erinnerungsabzeichen zur silberenen Hochzeit 1909.

Regards, Kronenorden

[saschaw]

Aaaaah, here's the thread, thanks for pulling it up again.

As I wrote before on the sale's area I think it's most likely a Hamburg Hanseatenkreuz missing - without having this thread in mind. Even if the ribbon isn't the right one it may be a "close enough", sa RR yet stated. Hessen's another nice idea for it, I've seen yet white ribbons that presumably _were_ blue - the Hessen blue it fades similiar to the Hungarian war memorial medal's ribbon - extremely and maybe even without direct sun light. The stripes seem to match perfectly for Hessen. However, I'm still not conviced it could be at all for that Reussian Erinnerungsabzeichen, sorry. Would that show up in rank lists, being pre-war?!

PS: another point noone made yet, apparently: the ranking would be correct on the bar and on the button for Hanseatencross and for Hessen medal: on the bar mounted as a "war award" and on the button as a "foreign award" on a Pruassian's bar with Prussian superiority! This makes me rather sure - WWI German bravery/war merit award...

[Kronenorden]

We will see...............