Imperial Russia ranking of russian orders

[David M]

Gents!

I don't know if I am right here but I remember the fllowing and don't know if I am right.

The orders of the Russian Empire rank ofcourse, the one is higher than the other. The point is that I read somewhere (cant remember where) that when someone received the a higher order it automaticaaly meant that he was knight of the lower ranking orders to. I remember reading thing like, "Knight of the Imperial Russian Alexander Newsky Order etc., etc." the etc. would than stand for the automatically lower orders such as the Wladimir Order.

Am I right or just going a bit crazy here? Hope you can help me out

thanks

David

[Pete A]

David,

I seem to recall that at least in the late 18th century and early 19th century the order of St. Alexander Nevsky meant also automatical St. Anne. But maybe someone with all the right books has more accurate information?

And btw, St. Vladimir ranked higher than St. Alexander Nevsky.

Pete

[David M]

Hi Pete

Thanks, glad I am not losing my mind here, it is a rather unique arrangement right? I never heard of an other country with such rules

hope someone else has more details about this, maybe with some sources even?!

David

David,

I seem to recall that at least in the late 18th century and early 19th century the order of St. Alexander Nevsky meant also automatical St. Anne. But maybe someone with all the right books has more accurate information?

And btw, St. Vladimir ranked higher than St. Alexander Nevsky.

Pete

[Pete A]

Hi Pete

Thanks, glad I am not losing my mind here, it is a rather unique arrangement right? I never heard of an other country with such rules

hope someone else has more details about this, maybe with some sources even?!

David

Now that I'm thinking it might have been that if you got the St. Andrew, you were entitled to Alex and Anne too. But this is all straight from the memory, so maybe we'll wait until some actual sources are cited. I quess this arrangement was effective only until the whole award system was re-organized so that one started getting awards for reaching a certain rank and age of service etc. I think this happened in early 19th century?

I also seem to recall that if someone received the Prussian Balck Eagle order, he was also entitled to the grand cross of the Red Eagle?

Pete

[David M]

Well that is what I recall too!!! Everywhere I look the Black and red birds are together

Now that I'm thinking it might have been that if you got the St. Andrew, you were entitled to Alex and Anne too. But this is all straight from the memory, so maybe we'll wait until some actual sources are cited. I quess this arrangement was effective only until the whole award system was re-organized so that one started getting awards for reaching a certain rank and age of service etc. I think this happened in early 19th century?

I also seem to recall that if someone received the Prussian Balck Eagle order, he was also entitled to the grand cross of the Red Eagle?

Pete

[GeorgeCL]

Highest Order

Order of St Andrew

Order of st Catherine, Women only

Order of st Alexander Nevsky

Order od St. George

Order of St Vladimir

Order of St anne

Order of the White Eagle

Order of St stanislas

I'll Have to read up on the Award process..

But I dont think you could skip an order .

George

[David M]

That would be great, thanks George

I'll Have to read up on the Award process..

But I dont think you could skip an order .

George

[Daniel Krause]

George and Wladimir were always out of the line and not included in the "upgrade system".

ranking was:

Andrew

Newski

White Eagle

St.Anna

Stanislaus

Normally a Russian one made all the way through the classes. It came mostly for foreigners; if they got initially for example a Newski they got automatically the White Eagle, St.Anne 1st and Stanislaus 1st.

So the Newski was worn on the sash, White Eagle around the neck, St.Anna in the Buttonhole and Stanislaus on the Medal bar.

Best regards

Daniel

[David M]

Hi Daniel

Thanks, I knew it was something like that!! Would there be any source/book were you got the info from? Are there any books mentioning this in either german or english?

Thanks

David

George and Wladimir were always out of the line and not included in the "upgrade system".

ranking was:

Andrew

Newski

White Eagle

St.Anna

Stanislaus

Normally a Russian one made all the way through the classes. It came mostly for foreigners; if they got initially for example a Newski they got automatically the White Eagle, St.Anne 1st and Stanislaus 1st.

So the Newski was worn on the sash, White Eagle around the neck, St.Anna in the Buttonhole and Stanislaus on the Medal bar.

Best regards

Daniel

[GeorgeCL]

Theres no one easy answer to these questions..

Imperial russian order persentation was very complicated

The Idea was to become a Knight in each order.

Years of service to receive an order had a lot to this.

St andrew being the highest you would need 42+ years of service to become eligible.

So that being said the awardee would more that likely already have to lower awards.

And St George was in its own catagory..

George

[eurorders]

What was the last year of issue of the Alexander Nevsky?

[paul wood]

As an official Russian Order 1917 during the Provisional Government. It may have been awarded by the White forces at a later date and of course the Soviets established the Order in WW2 .

Paul

[eurorders]

Thanks and yes, I was thinking of the classic imperial version, the design of which I really like. I like the one in Mericka's book.