11-Placer Bavarian Ribbon Bar - ID?

[Nicolas7507]

Thank for your additional comments, thoughts and numbers, Daniel and Laurentius!

Here is a ribbon bar from my collection, which features a MVK 3rd Class with added swords on the ribbon.

Daniel, very interesting to know, that the award numbers are so low for Saxony.

[Komtur]

I have to admit, the discussion regarding the devices on Austrian ribbon bars is to sophisticated for my basic knowledge in this field. So I am not sure, if the group of Dr. Rudolf Mosaner could be of some help

[laurentius]

Dear FAR32,

first of all I'd like to say that the picture of the Order of the Iron Crown with wreath is not mine. It comes from a database on this website, set up by the late Rick Lundstrom, for future research into ribbonbars. It would be an understatement to say that Rick would be excited to see this thread.

I believe we have struck a most interesting topic here (Nicholas must hate us for hijacking his thread). It doesn't surprise me that the device on the ribbonbar posted by me comes from a different medal. This was often done by tailors (as mentioned by you, with the wreath of the Wurttembergian MVO).

On 08/10/2019 at 18:43, FAR 32 said:

A real ribbon bar from 1940 (or later) is shown below. 

This is a lovely ribbonbar, one of the few originals, however, I do not think this piece is representative for Orders of the Iron Crown given to Germans, since the recipient here was Austrian (although German at the time the ribbonbar was made). I have a few more examples I'd like you to take a look at. They are pictured below (the pictures themselves do not belong to me, I do not actively collect ribbonbars).

 

If what you say is true ( only improvised wreaths) than what would you say of the first of the two Order of the Iron Crowns here? It matches your description perfectly. It is only laurel, and it is half open (not opened like my previous example).

Kind regards, Laurentius

[Nicolas7507]

A few more examples of Iron Crown devices (Not my collection)

[Christian1962]

Just a supplement referring to the Mosaner-group:

the problem is that the bar is a mix between K.u.k. and republic.

The k.u.k. precedence would have been:

EKO.3.X, BMVM.X, KTK, VerwM, Kriegsmedaille, JM1898, JK1908 

then were added: Weltkriegserinnerungsmedaille 1914 - 18 and Tiroler Landesdenkmünze 1914 - 18.

The precedence for Bundesheer would have been:

EKO.3.X, BMVM.X, KTK, VerwM, Kriegsmedaille (this is questionable but most probably), Weltkriegserinnerungsmedaille 1914 - 18, JM1898 and JK1908. For officers and NCOs serving in Bundesheer it was not allowed to wear Tiroler Landesdenkmünze because it was not an official accepted decoration by the republic (as always in Austria they did it at all against the rules). But civilians and vets could wear it. And Morsaner was a vet and not in active service.

Bulgarian war medal would have been always on last position. 

It is remarkable that the Hindenburg-cross ist just on the ribbon bar but not the medal bar. And look at the inverted swords for the Weltkriegserinnerungsmedaille what is very strange.

Regards

Christian

 

 

Edited October 10, 2019 by Christian1962

[Christian1962]

I was referring to the last order of precedence which was given out by the "liquidierendes k.u.k. Kriegsministerium" in 1918/19. You will find it in Michetschläger "Das Ordensbuch der gewesenen österreich-ungarischen Monarchie".

I tryed to make a pic but it is not of best quality, sorry for that.

It´s quite interesting because they were featuring a new Kriegserinnerungsmedaille 1914 - 1918 and a Kriegserinnungskreuz.

Regards

Christian