Kásás Adrian Árpád Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 Greetings all, I have recently returned home from a visit to the Budapest Military Archives; where I was lucky enough to be able to arrange a viewing of my great-grandfather's full military records. Unfortunately I only have very little conversational Hungarian, so I have taken photos of every document in the file. I wanted to ask if there are any members on here who may be able to help translate/deciefer these documents. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated, as Google-translate is proving frustrating. Thanks in advance, Kásás Adrian Árpád. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farkas Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 Hello, i’d love to see some pictures of the documents have you a large haul to struggle through?? tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bayern Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 Hello , My Hungarian is limited ,but if you post pictures of the documents perhaps i could help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kásás Adrian Árpád Posted November 21, 2018 Author Share Posted November 21, 2018 Hi guys, currently at work but will post some pictures when I get chance. Thanks for the replies. AAK. 12 hours ago, Farkas said: Hello, i’d love to see some pictures of the documents have you a large haul to struggle through?? tony As my Hungarian is limited, I had to just photograph everything. Have worked out a few details already, but struggling with the language as a lot of it is obviously handwritten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kásás Adrian Árpád Posted November 25, 2018 Author Share Posted November 25, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farkas Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 Hi Kasas, Gents Some great paperwork! i think you have been lucky with the handwriting- it could have been a lot worse! —-//———-// If I may start the ball rolling...... To me, the record appears to have been rewritten in 1921 which is why some dates are listed in reverse. Entries post 1921 are listed forward. 1 : Awards 2 : Assigment / posting 3 : Reassignment 4 : Other details / other notes also Rendelet: decree/statute idoponja : time allomany : file/staff This section above shows the dates he was promoted. Hadnagy : Lieutenant Szazados : Captain Ornagy : Major Al Ezredes : Colonel 10 awards. #4 awarded first then 3,2 and 1. then later #5 - 10 My guess below. I repeat guess! 1. ?? 2. Karl Frontline Cross 3. Bronze Bravery (1st class or repeat award) 4. Bronze Bravery (2nd class) 5. ?? 6. Silver (Bravery?) 1st class 7. Hungarian campaign medal 8. Austrian campaign medal 9. Bulgarian(?) campaign medal 10. German campaign medal. (Hindenburg Kreuz : HK) —-/-////———- Thats all I’ve got Gents!! tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 I think you will find that 'alezredes' is actually Oberstleutnant (Lieutenant Colonel). ezredes is Oberst/Colonel. Her last served in the 23 Honvéd Infantry Regiment. Medal No1. Order of the Iron Crown 3rd Class with 'kreigs' decoration and swords Medal No 2. Bronze Signum Laudis Medal No. 3 Large Silver Bravery Medal No. 4 Small silver Bravery Medals No 5 through 10 are post 1918 medals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tifes Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 ...just my 2cents 1. Military Merit Cross 3rd Class with WD and Swords 2. Bronze Military Merit Medal (Signum Laudis) - issue Karl 3. Silver Bravery Medal 1st Class 4. Silver Bravery Medals 2nd Class 5. KTK - Karl Army Cross 6. Medal for Injury - for one time 7. Commemorative Hungarian Medal 8. Commemorative Austrian Medal 9. Commemorative Bulgarian Medal 10. Commemorative German Medal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 After reviewing the documents again I think your response is spot on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bayern Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 Hello , I can add that Vitez means Hero , Zaszlos ,ensign , Hadnagy ,lieutenant ,Fohadnagy , first lieutenant , Sazsados ,captain ,Ornagy ,major , and Alezredes ,lieutenant colonel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farkas Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 (edited) Hi gents if I ever make it to the Vienna Archives for my Grandfathers records, if you agree, you will all be ‘called up’ again! 22 hours ago, Ian said: I think you will find that 'alezredes' is actually Oberstleutnant (Lieutenant Colonel). ezredes is Oberst/Colonel. Her last served in the 23 Honvéd Infantry Regiment. Medal No1. Order of the Iron Crown 3rd Class with 'kreigs' decoration and swords Medal No 2. Bronze Signum Laudis Medal No. 3 Large Silver Bravery Medal No. 4 Small silver Bravery Medals No 5 through 10 are post 1918 medals. 20 hours ago, tifes said: ...just my 2cents 1. Military Merit Cross 3rd Class with WD and Swords 2. Bronze Military Merit Medal (Signum Laudis) - issue Karl 3. Silver Bravery Medal 1st Class 4. Silver Bravery Medals 2nd Class 5. KTK - Karl Army Cross 6. Medal for Injury - for one time 7. Commemorative Hungarian Medal 8. Commemorative Austrian Medal 9. Commemorative Bulgarian Medal 10. Commemorative German Medal 19 hours ago, Bayern said: Hello , I can add that Vitez means Hero , Zaszlos ,ensign , Hadnagy ,lieutenant ,Fohadnagy , first lieutenant , Sazsados ,captain ,Ornagy ,major , and Alezredes ,lieutenant colonel. To Ian, tifes & Bayern.... Re: these records, in particular, the awards/medals, may I ask about your knowledge a little please.... i guessed #4 and 3 as bronze because of his lower rank at the time of issue and #6 I guessed at silver because of the S and the 935. I doubt I will ever try and read a Hungarian document such as this again! but I am curious and wonder are you Gents familiar and could recognise these records at a glance or do you look these things up perhaps? It is all new to me. It took me hours to put my post together! I joined this forum just over a year ago and you all amaze me time and again with your superpowers! tony Edited November 29, 2018 by Farkas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tifes Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 Dear Tony, I speak several languages but unfortunately not Hungarian. I know like 20, maybe 30 words and that´s pretty much all. However, there is always a system. Orders and decorations are in ranking, highest one at the 1st position then going down to the last one. I am 100% positive about No.3 and No.4. Why?...these symbols were used already in A-H methodology. Empty circle with "2" equals "Silberne Tapferkeitsmedaille 2te Klasse" (Silver Bravery medal 2nd class), then No3 (empty circle with "1") is "Silberne Tapferkeitsmedaille 1ste Klasse" (Silver Bravery medal 2nd class). He had got them obviously as ensign. No2 must be something higher. There is clearly word "Bronz" and "Karol". It´s pretty much obvious, but for being sure I put to google "Militär" (Military) and "Verdienstmedaille" (Medal for Merit) and it´s "katonai" and " Érdemes érdemek " and in the document there is "kant-é-é". So it is Bronze Military Merit Medal (Signum Laudis) - issue Karl. No1 must be something even higher. What did A-H officers usually get as the first officer´s decoration after Signum Laudis? - Military Merit Cross 3rd class. I have put to google these three words and I have got "katonai" then " érdem " then " kereszt". Whats can you see in the document? - "Kék" and then "3" and "O" which is for " osztály" - "class" and in the brackets you have symbol for war decoration and swords, exactly like in A-H records. No5 - it´s sure that he saw real warfare so there must be somewhere Karl-Truppen Kreuz - ranking below all bravery medals. Once again you put it to google and you find that acronym "K-ésk" pretty much corresponds to it. No6 must be something ranking below KTK. What can it be in case of young 2nd lieutenant/1st lieutenant? There is very little left in real life. He never saw action before WWI. He wasn't even in military before autumn 1914. In A-H records the Medal for Wound (Verwundetenmedaille) was marked by capital letter "V" and there was number for how many times it was awarded, each time for a wound, going from 1 to 5. "Wound" in Hungarian is "Seb" and then all commemorative medals starting with Hungary as his own motherland, then Austria, Bulgaria and the last one it´s Germany. Here we go... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bayern Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 Hello tony ,personally during the early spring of 1993 i went to Budapest, there I bought a book about the Hungarian Honved . from his creation until 1918, the book beatifully ilustrated was in Hungarian ,but with a German abreviated translation . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farkas Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 Gents..... thank you i’m no youngster at 48 but am a late comer to the internet. There used to be less I should know! Living and learning thanks tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bayern Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 tony ,I am a 64 year old ,and i just entered into Internet at 57 yo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kásás Adrian Árpád Posted November 30, 2018 Author Share Posted November 30, 2018 On 29/11/2018 at 02:43, tifes said: ...just my 2cents 1. Military Merit Cross 3rd Class with WD and Swords 2. Bronze Military Merit Medal (Signum Laudis) - issue Karl 3. Silver Bravery Medal 1st Class 4. Silver Bravery Medals 2nd Class 5. KTK - Karl Army Cross 6. Medal for Injury - for one time 7. Commemorative Hungarian Medal 8. Commemorative Austrian Medal 9. Commemorative Bulgarian Medal 10. Commemorative German Medal Thank you all for your input, especially on the medals section. Am trying to find out more info as I go along, specifically about where he served. I know he was on the eastern front in the Ukraine, as he won one of his medals there. Here are the medals of his that I own. AK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markgraf Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 The 10th medal isn't the German Comemmorative Medal. It is 2nd class of the Service Cross for military officials. The crosses itself were the same, but the ribbons were different for officers, doctors/judges etc. and the military officials. The HK abbrevation means Honvédségi Közlöny - the Army Gazette. It is a reference for the award. The Cross itself the lower left on the picture (otherwise it is a rare medal). Kásás Árpád wounded on 1916.09.20 on his neck. He spent 4 months on sick leave. BTW the Hindenburg Cross awarded for German citizens only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farkas Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 Hi gents Nice one Markgraf, 9 hours ago, Markgraf said: The 10th medal isn't the German Comemmorative Medal. It is 2nd class of the Service Cross for military officials. The crosses itself were the same, but the ribbons were different for officers, doctors/judges etc. and the military officials. The HK abbrevation means Honvédségi Közlöny - the Army Gazette. It is a reference for the award. The Cross itself the lower left on the picture (otherwise it is a rare medal). Kásás Árpád wounded on 1916.09.20 on his neck. He spent 4 months on sick leave. BTW the Hindenburg Cross awarded for German citizens only. —-//:///——— The picture posted by after our replies helps to cross reference.... Medals 1, 3 and 11 shown on the above picture are not listed on his records.... ——://———— On 29/11/2018 at 02:43, tifes said: ...just my 2cents 1. Military Merit Cross 3rd Class with WD and Swords 2. Bronze Military Merit Medal (Signum Laudis) - issue Karl 3. Silver Bravery Medal 1st Class 4. Silver Bravery Medals 2nd Class 5. KTK - Karl Army Cross 6. Medal for Injury - for one time 7. Commemorative Hungarian Medal 8. Commemorative Austrian Medal 9. Commemorative Bulgarian Medal 10. Commemorative German Medal And both the 8: Austrian commemorative 9: Bulgarian commemorative are missing from the collection.... tony On 30/11/2017 at 22:08, Ulsterman said: As an aside-very few of the residents of Ostmark applied for and received an HK. The medal was authorized for Ostmarkers only in 1939 and frozen in early 1940. Edit: A previous answer I had about a bar I have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farkas Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 On 30/11/2018 at 02:04, Bayern said: tony ,I am a 64 year old ,and i just entered into Internet at 57 yo. Edit : Bayern, you give me hope! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markgraf Posted December 29, 2018 Share Posted December 29, 2018 14 hours ago, Farkas said: Hi Medals 1, 3 and 11 shown on the above picture are not listed on his records.... 1.: Commemorative medal for the Liberation of Transylvania 1940 3.: The Horty-era SIgnum Laudis. On this ribbon awarded for officers but not for war services. 11.: National Defense Cross Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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