Daniel Murphy Posted April 14, 2006 Share Posted April 14, 2006 Gentlemen, I had a esteemed member of this forum send me the following photos of two PLMs in his collection. He was asking for my opinion on them and my reply was something like " OMFG!!! ". I am posting them for him since he wishes to remain anonymous. First up is one in silver gilt with a "god awful crown" (as he put it). Dan Murphy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Murphy Posted April 14, 2006 Author Share Posted April 14, 2006 Reverse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Murphy Posted April 14, 2006 Author Share Posted April 14, 2006 So you ask. Who is it identified to? Here is a photocopy of the original document for the above piece. Thats right, Oberleutnant der Matrosenartillerie Friedrich Christiansen. The only naval seaplane pilot to be awarded the Pour le Merite in WW1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Murphy Posted April 14, 2006 Author Share Posted April 14, 2006 Here is the document for the crown awarded in 1967. The signature at the bottom is of Theo Osterkamp, himself a PLM winner and head of the Orders association in 1967. The crown on the above PLM is identical to one shown on the PLM of Arthur Laumann in "Prussian Blue". This one is just attached in a different way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Murphy Posted April 14, 2006 Author Share Posted April 14, 2006 Here is a photo of Christiansen in 1936, then a Generalmajor of the Luftwaffe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Murphy Posted April 14, 2006 Author Share Posted April 14, 2006 (edited) Next up we have the hollow gold PLM with oakleaves of Generaloberst Artur Arz von Straussen-Burg awarded on 28 Aug. 1915. He was awarded the Oakleaves on 6 Aug. 1917. From March 1917 until the end of the war, he was Chief of the General Staff for the A-H Army. My friend attributes the immaculate condition of this piece is due to the owner being Austro-Hungarian and therefore he may not have worn it often. Whatever the reason, it is a magnificent piece.Dan Murphy Edited April 14, 2006 by Daniel Murphy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Murphy Posted April 14, 2006 Author Share Posted April 14, 2006 Reverse. If you have any questions, I will forward them to my friend who wishes to remain anonymous. I do not have them in hand so it may take a day or two for an answer. Dan Murphy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Murphy Posted April 14, 2006 Author Share Posted April 14, 2006 Here is a link to his service history. Artur Arz Freiherr von Straussen-Burg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deruelle Posted April 14, 2006 Share Posted April 14, 2006 Very impressive collection. I like the PlM in gold RegardsChristophe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notned Posted April 14, 2006 Share Posted April 14, 2006 Outstanding!thanks for showing....RegardsPaul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biro Posted April 14, 2006 Share Posted April 14, 2006 Hi DanIf your friend has the capability to do a really good close-up shot of the Ob and Rev eagle I've highlighted on the gilt piece below, I would be very keen to see it... either here, or by email if necessary.cheersMarshall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stogieman Posted April 14, 2006 Share Posted April 14, 2006 The Association document is fantastic... I've only seen a couple of those over the years... even less than the original award documents! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Posted April 14, 2006 Share Posted April 14, 2006 Any chance of straight on, direct shot or shots with -no- angle of camera to medal? I'm with Marshall on wanting to see close ups of both sides of the eagle(s), -and- one other shot. Could I see a close up of the Pour?For the moment, I'm with-holding comment on the "Christiansen" piece until there's better photos and I can get a better fix on that piece.Dan, could you ask the owner if these pieces have been weighed?Les Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Posted April 14, 2006 Share Posted April 14, 2006 Dan,One additional question....There was no mention of maker marks, or in the case of the silver-gilt one, a silver-content stamp. Any markings present, or are they absent on the silver-gilt example?Les Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biro Posted April 15, 2006 Share Posted April 15, 2006 Hi DanThanks for your PM - I found your friends silver gilt piece interesting for a number of reasons, hence the request for the close-up.There was no mention of markings, and as the PLM design and award date dictate the Christiansen piece can only be attributed to either Friedlander or Wagner, my interest was perked!With the aid of Steve Previtera's fine book, my own PLM and some friends here, I'm studying the various characteristics of the 3 wartime manufacturers and it was with interest that I noted that Christiansens PLM did not fit entirely 'snuggly' into the evolution of the Wagners/Friedlanders based on award dates and associated die deterioration.... at least as far as I've discovered.Of course, there is no reason to assume that PLM's - like any award - were both made and awarded in strict chronological order - many had to wait to receive theirs due to wartime conditions.... but conversely, between Dec 1916 (when the silver gilt decree came into force) and Christansens Dec 1917 award date, award numbers were still comparatively small and therefore, logically, so were the production numbers. Some PLM's I've studied were awarded a mere 4 months after Christiansens (April 1918) and are already exhibiting heavy flawing, yet from what I can see, his has none. Based on what I've learnt so far, my guess would be that his PLM was made well before it's presentation date of Dec 1917. Its lack of distinctive die flaws and some lettering characteristics appear to have more in common with the hollow gold or even rarer hollow silver gilt pieces than the late war solid PLM's from these two makers, where die deterioration was evident.Anyway, my point (which may or may not interest your friend) is that the closest I can come to a Wagner/Friedlander PLM that fits all the parameters exhibited by Christiansens PLM and it's award date is a hollow silver gilt piece.... which would make not only the awardee but the piece itself exceptionally rare. Strictly speaking though, there should at least be a silver content mark?If it's solid, then from the total lack of flawing I figure it had to have been made VERY soon after the Kaisers December 1916 silver gilt decree.What does your friend know about the piece and can he add any specifics to the equation?And please if anyone needs to correct me on any points, feel free...Marshall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Murphy Posted April 15, 2006 Author Share Posted April 15, 2006 Marshall, When he contacted me, the main piece he wanted me to look at was the silver-gilt piece. The gold piece was just added because he thought I would enjoy seeing it. He then stated that there were no markings and two vent holes in the 3 and 9 o'clock arms. I automatically assumed he was speaking of the gold one. Perhaps it is hollow and he did not know to look on the baroque loop for the markings. I will clarify this with him and get back to you. Dan Murphy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Posted April 16, 2006 Share Posted April 16, 2006 Marshall, When he contacted me, the main piece he wanted me to look at was the silver-gilt piece. The gold piece was just added because he thought I would enjoy seeing it. He then stated that there were no markings and two vent ........... Dan MurphyDan,If the silver-gilt one turns out to be solid, not hollow, and without markings of any type, please ask the owner if he could look very carefully at the eagles to see if they were soldered onto the cross, and second, to look carefully with a jewelers loupe (at least 8X, 20X is even better) at the edges or sides of the arms of the cross for -any- traces of a seam line.If the piece is solid silver, with no maker marks, or lacking silver content stamps or if present that do not match the precise details of known maker stampings, and/or the eagles were soldered on, that's not going to be a good sign at all.Les Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Murphy Posted April 17, 2006 Author Share Posted April 17, 2006 (edited) I have repeated your questions to the owner and have not yet received his reply. To prove that the above PLM documented to Christiansen, is his, I will repeat the first photo and under it is a close up of the one Christiansen is wearing in the picture. The same size chips in the same places are visible on the PLM in the current photo AND the one taken in 1936. A statement was made on another thread, that a document does not prove the PLM was his, but photographic evidence would. Here you are. No the crown is not in the picture from '36, he did not get it until '67. I am done with this thread. Oh ye of little faith....Dan Murphy Edited April 17, 2006 by Daniel Murphy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biro Posted April 17, 2006 Share Posted April 17, 2006 ...If you have any questions, I will forward them to my friend who wishes to remain anonymous.....Dan MurphyI simply asked if it was hollow?... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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