Alex K Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 Hi Does anyone have any information regarding the Grand Cross of the order, it is mentioned in numerous places but whilst I've seen images of the Sash, and lower grades, I can't locate any details on the Grand cross, Did it exist? it states that very few were awarded, so is obviously rare, any details photo'd and dimensions etc appreciated regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taz Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 (edited) Hi Alex, Does this help at all? Verleihungszahlen 1806/15 Ordensklasse Gesamt Großkreuz 20 Komtur 68 Ritterkreuz 620 1818/57 Ordensklasse Gesamt Großkreuz 5 Komtur 25 Ritterkreuz 30 1870/89 Ordensklasse Gesamt Großkreuz 34 Komtur 65 Ritterkreuz 173 1892/1914 Ordensklasse Gesamt Großkreuz 13 Komtur 27 Ritterkreuz 55 Erster Weltkrieg 1914/18 Ordensklasse Württemberger Ausländer Gesamt Großkreuz 2 14 18 Komtur 11 8 19 Ritterkreuz 2.170 119 2.289 Edited September 3, 2019 by Taz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taz Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 Inschrift Bene merentibus (Denen, die sich wohl verdient gemacht haben) und ab 1818 Furchtlos und trew Regards Eddie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex K Posted September 3, 2019 Author Share Posted September 3, 2019 Hi Taz, thanks for the information, yes it all helps, one additional question, the cross you posted appears to be a cloth type for sewing to the uniform, attached is the sash, currently on a dealers site, together with a "Type 3?" breast badge, what would have been attached to the sash, I assume there was something regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taz Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 (edited) Getragen wurde das Großkreuz ebenso wie das Komturkreuz um den Hals, allerdings zusätzlich mit einem silbernen Steckkreuz. The star of the order, awarded with the Grand Cross only, was a gold-rimmed silver eight-pointed star featuring the ringed medallion of the obverse of the cross. Is that a possibility? Regards Eddie Edited September 3, 2019 by Taz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saschaw Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, Alex K said: (...) the cross you posted appears to be a cloth type for sewing to the uniform As with literally almost every Grand Cross grade of the German states' orders, the "Grand Cross" consisted of a badge/cross to be worn on the sash, and a breast star. The star shown by Taz is an odd, privately made star with a fancy fantasy design. May have been a wearer's copy, or may have not been. The Steinam made breast star - picture from the OMSA site, I think? - is an official award type from late 19th century. Stuttgart auction house Eppli sold a marvelous Grand Cross ensemble, awarded in 1908 to Württemberg General der Infanterie z. D. Friedrich Wilhelm Ernst Julius Freiherr Pergler von Perglas (1827-1913), in their March 2017 auction. Check here for pictures and details of this incredible set. Edited September 3, 2019 by saschaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex K Posted September 3, 2019 Author Share Posted September 3, 2019 (edited) 46 minutes ago, saschaw said: As with literally almost every Grand Cross grade of the German states' orders, the "Grand Cross" consisted of a badge/cross to be worn on the sash, and a breast star. The star shown by Taz is an odd, privately made star with a fancy fantasy design. May have been a wearer's copy, or may have not been. The Steinam made breast star - picture from the OMSA site, I think? - is an official award type from late 19th century. Stuttgart auction house Eppli sold a marvelous Grand Cross ensemble, awarded in 1908 to Württemberg General der Infanterie z. D. Friedrich Wilhelm Ernst Julius Freiherr Pergler von Perglas (1827-1913), in their March 2017 auction. Check here for pictures and details of this incredible set. Hi, yes the one I posted is from the omsa site, it looked "official", the link is just what I was looking for, an amazing and rare set, thanks, with regards to the sash badge I've read that at around the begining of ww1 that the crown itself was dropped from all grades, I assume the GK was the same, perhaps I'm wrong, or pre-war awards kept the crown, after that awards were made minus the crown, taz, thanks for your additional input also, best regards, alex Edited September 3, 2019 by Alex K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beau Newman Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 Sotheby's sold one in 2000 (Sale L00572, Lot 105). It was a Wilhelm II issue and had a dimension of 60.4mm, no crown. It sold for 6,000 pounds. They have pretty good archives on their site so, you may still be able to find it there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex K Posted September 6, 2019 Author Share Posted September 6, 2019 Hi Thank for the details, I'll have a scour through their archives to see if I can find it regards Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beau Newman Posted September 7, 2019 Share Posted September 7, 2019 I was able to find the catalog. Here is a scan of the photo. A matching Breast Star (Lot 106) Sold for 3,400. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex K Posted September 7, 2019 Author Share Posted September 7, 2019 Hi just spotted, your message, thanks exactly what I was looking for, thanks, regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saschaw Posted September 8, 2019 Share Posted September 8, 2019 What might also be important to note: Grand Cross badges and Commander crosses are of identical size for this order, and indistinguishable from each other, unless they come with either solid provenience or the breast star, as the latter was worn by Grand Crosses only (see Klein and Raff, p. 454/455). Also interesting: the Grand Cross badge was, as previously noted by Taz, worn on the neck as well. It wasn't until the September 1914 statutes changed that it got a sash, as it's usual for Grand Crosses grades (Klein and Raff, p. 460). I was totally unaware of that fact. I'm sorry for my misleading information in my earlier statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utgardloki Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 (edited) Wilhelm von Württemberg wearing the grand cross in the fashion before 1914. Obviously, as he died 1896... Edited December 5, 2019 by Utgardloki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex K Posted December 5, 2019 Author Share Posted December 5, 2019 Nice image, thanks for posting, regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utgardloki Posted April 1, 2020 Share Posted April 1, 2020 Just have seen another one: "Karl von Knoerzer, General der Infanterie, Kommandeur der 26. Division von 1881-1885 (1884?, siehe Rückseite), stehend in Uniform des Grenadier-Regimentes Nr. 119 (Königin Olga), Orden und Degen / 1897" Equaly interesting, his beautiful Degen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saschaw Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 (edited) On 05/12/2019 at 16:56, Utgardloki said: Wilhelm von Württemberg wearing the grand cross in the fashion before 1914. A nice photo as well, thanks for showing! Noteworthy, he's wearing a knight's cross of the same order as well, possibly as a "small decoration"! Edited April 4, 2020 by saschaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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