Richthofen

[Paul C]

I just started read a book by William E. Burrows title Richthofen A True History of the Red Baron, 1969. There are 2 interesting pictures in it; one is of his trophe room and the other is his grave in Berlin. Does anyone know if the grave still exists? One point of interest in the book is that, according to the author, Richthofen received the Iron Cross THIRD class in 1914. How interesting!

[Paul C]

Grave

[Ed_Haynes]

One point of interest in the book is that, according to the author, Richthofen received the Iron Cross THIRD class in 1914. How interesting!

Clearly a unique and interesting award. Does make you question all else in the book, doesn't it? It does indicate that everyone who write a history book isn't, automatically, a HISTORIAN!

[Christophe]

(...) Does anyone know if the grave still exists? (...)

I don't know for the grave in Berlin; will have to check.

What is sure is that von Richthofen was initially buried in the local cemetery at Bertangles, France, and in 1925, his remains were moved to Berlin. In 1975, his remains were moved again, to his family?s burial location in Wiesbaden, Germany, where they remain today.

So, if the Berlin grave still exists; it is empty...

Ch.

[Tom Morgan]

As Christophe says, MvR was originally buried at Bertangles. After the war, his remains were moved from Bertangles to the German Cemetery at Fricourt. It was from this cemetery that his remains were exhumed, on November 14th, 1925, and taken to Germany.

Tom

[Kev in Deva]

One point of interest in the book is that, according to the author, Richthofen received the Iron Cross THIRD class in 1914. How interesting!

Speaking of blunders, many members of the Club must be familiar with the History Channel / Discovery Channel Series, well in one episode the programe was about Rudolph Hess, the guy who went against Adolf and flew to GB to talk piece, getting lost over Scotland he bailed out and was captured, well the programme cuts to an interview with an "author and expert" on Hess, (as far as I can remember the interview was in a pub, near the bail-out area) the speaker goes on to say one of the author prized possesion's is HESS's original Iron Cross won in the First World War good so far, camera zooms in on the cross in the guys hand and you get a great view of the swastika on it, must be an uncataloged version of the EK from WW1

Kevin in Deva.

Edited April 23, 2006 by Kev in Deva

[Les]

As Christophe says......... his remains were exhumed, on November 14th, 1925, and taken to Germany.

Tom

The family in the 1920's were interested in bringing the body back to Schweidnitz, to be buried next to the father (Albrecht) and MvR's brother (Lothar). The German government heard and asked the family if the body could be interred in the Invalidenfriedhofen, in Berlin. This was done, and that's were matters stood until 1975. In 1945, with the Russians moving towards Berlin, the Richtofen family were evacuated westwards and the family graves left. After the war, the town council of what used to be Schweidnitz, and these days part of Poland, decided that the graveyard in the center of town could be used for other than burial plots. The grave markers were removed, grass planted, and the land used as a park. Today, Albrecht v. Richtofen, Lothar v. Richtofen (PlM -"aviation" - recipient) lie in unmarked graves. If MvR had been moved "home" as the family hoped in 1925, he may now be lying in non-German soil in an unmarked grave.

In 1961, the DDR built the "wall", and MvR's gravesite in the Invaliden was almost directly next to the wall (five feet or about 1.5 meters). In the mid-1970's the DDR announced that the "death strip" along the wall was going to be expanded, with graves either being moved, headstones and all vegetation removed, and so on. The family asked to move his body, rather than have the grave marker removed, etc.

Some refer to the Weisbaden site as a "family cemetary" although he is buried next to his mother, sister, and younger brother Bolko. The "family" is partly there, but that is not the "ancestral" family grave site. It's were the remnants and surviving family members ended up after fleeing the Russians and the aftermath of the division and occupation of Germany following the end of WWII.

Les

[Daniel Cole]

The big stone marker that says "Richthofen" is currently in front on the entrance to the Luftwaffe base at Wittmund which is in Northern Germany by Wilhelmshaven. Wittmund is is Home of "Geschwader Richthofen" of the Luftwaffe.

Go to find a grave and you can find pophotos of the Wiesbaden site also,

[Daniel Murphy]

It is truly a shame that some have no respect for the dead. Having seen school children running around over graves, playing and yelling at Langemarck Cemetary in Belgium, one wonders what will become of this world. Thank you for the thread, I had no idea MvR had been moved from Berlin or that Lothar's grave was unmarked.

Dan Murphy

Edited April 23, 2006 by Daniel Murphy

[Tom Morgan]

Sorry to hear of your bad experience at Langemark, Daniel, especially when you had obviously travelled so far to be there.

Before I became a bookseller, I spent 6 years as a full-time battlefield guide, specialising in school tours. Like you, I have noticed that young people today do not grow up having learned the the things that we learned - such as being respectful in a cemetery, removing hats when eating, etc.

However, I also learned that young people are actually very keen to do what other people might expect of them - provided that you tell them what other people expect. It's just that no-one ever has, I think. (Including whoever was in charge of their visit, I suppose.)

Best wishes -

Tom