bulgaria Grand Cross of St Alexander order with swords

[Igor Ostapenko]

from 1881 to 1908 order of St. Alexander first class with swords receive 5 times ( one was with brilliants ) - information from book 

 

First awarding of Grand Cross with swards was in 1915 - to Enver Pasha ( Turkey ) 

In wikipedia you can see list of awarded the order

 

https://bg.wikipedia.org/wiki/Носители_на_орден_„Свети_Александър“_Велик_кръст 
 

from 1915 to 1918 ( for Great War ) GC with swords receive 18 times 

( one with brilliants and one on the chain ) 

 

[Igor Ostapenko]

1928 . 
Polish Marshal Józef Piłsudski receive Grand Cross with swords . 
We can see size of cross - 50-51 mm ( size of neck badge ) 

[Graf]

 

Hi Igor,

Nice Grand Cross.

 

It is difficult to judge the size on the Polish Marshal set, however it is not unusual some Sets to come with 2 Class Cross We have seen few examples in the past Even in the Military Museum in Sofia there are handful of 1st Class/Grand Cross  with a crosses from  lower  Classes

[new world]

That extra loop on top of Pilsudski's cross looks out of place, it's purpose was to be put on a neck ribbon, which leads me to believe that it's a lower class cross.

It's likely that originally he was awarded a set with proper Grand Class cross, but it got lost over the years and was replaced by similar looking 2nd class.  

[Graf]

Hi New World,

 

I agree with your point about the neck ribbon loop.

At the same time we have seen few Sets of 1st Class/Grand Cross with crosses this loop.

In my opinion the size is the most important  if we have to follow the books, although we have seen those Sets with non standard size of either the cross or the Stars. We do not know whether those Sets had been awarded as they are or some of the parts were replaced due to damage or loss later I have in mind the well known and documented Sets not the ones in the collectors world where the mix and mach can take place at any time.

See even in those Sets the rules are not followed

in the Russian issue 1st Class Sets the one without the swords the Star looks like a later model

The cross from the luxury  Grand Cross Set  has ribbon loop

 

 

Edited November 27, 2021 by Graf

[Igor Ostapenko]

From 1915 to 1918 yy. was 18 awardings of Grand Cross of Order St. Alexander with swords . 
Only 18 (sic!) 

Bulgarian generals not receive this awards. Never 

 

after WWI some percons receive this award , but cross was 50 mm , not 55 mm . 

[Igor Ostapenko]

Star of order in russian museum 

In another russian museum 

Cross of GC without crown 

And 

Pictures of two GC’s from Uwe Bretzendorfer 

 

1st 

and 2nd 

[Igor Ostapenko]

I need ribbon for this cross ?

[Graf]

Hi Igor,

Original ribbon/sash for  Grand Cross is difficult to find, however not impossible ...just be patient

I recently managed to track the origin of the unusual swards of my Grand Cross Star

It was used by the Firm  Godet  Berlin for the Orders of one of the German States

When I did buy it few years ago from an Auction , the seller claimed to be German made

The back has different pin system and central plate On examination it did not look like the swards were added in later stage. It appear it was made this way i can only explain the different swards that they did not have the standard Bulgarian ones and used those instead for a German awarded person. the front central medallion is French type one

As a whole the body of the Star looks more German then French

 

 

[Igor Ostapenko]

Hi Peter, 

I think your star 1st class Kretly production with added german swords , very interesting and very rare . ? 

 

I just remembered - our colleague on the forum showed this star of Grand Cross of St. Alexander with swords , Scheid production . 
 

One of 18 stars awarded from 1915 to 1919 !!! 

[Igor Ostapenko]

Box and Uberkarton for Grand Cross with swords ( from eMedals ) 

[Graf]

[Igor Ostapenko]

19 hours ago, Graf said:

Very good GC with swords ! ? 

It’s your ? 
I think cross 50-51 mm, germany’s production 1940-1945 yy ? 
Zimmermann ? 
Must to be marked 800 or SiLBER 

[Graf]

Hi Igor,

indeed very nice Set.

Sadly not mine It is in my pictures files

Yes The cross looks smaller

Also the Star has only one ring around the central medallion

Recently i saw a German made Grand Cross Star with only one ring, although the size was bigger then the 2nd Class ones

The seller claimed to be Grand Cross Star. He stated that some German made Grand Cross Stars had only one ring

 

Cheers

[Igor Ostapenko]

Very interesting ! 
 

also ? - in WWII Grand Crosses was 50 mm ?! 

[Graf]

Hi Igor,

 

The Cross has to be 54-55 mm, however we have seen any variations on the collectors market

We only can guess if the Sets do not have very strong provenance

It could be awarded this size.

It could be "upgraded" with a Sash for a better value

I collect Belgium Orders as well and I have Seen Grand Cordon  Sets awarded in between the WW1 and WW2 with Commander Crosses in Gold. Due to financial considerations around this time they stopped making the crosses in Gold and started producing them in Silver Gild  Now days they are made in Bronze Gild

I assume that those Sets were assembled that way using the left overs Gold crosses regardless that they were smaller size. Again they could have been mix and matched in a later stage. Only strong provenance can tell us the story

 

Cheers

[Igor Ostapenko]

Hi Peter, 

 

Crosses of 1st class and Grand Crosses was in one size 

 

we can see crosses 1st class WWII germany’s production 

 

51.2 mm, marked SiLBER ( not SILBER, with little i ) - GODET production 

 # 

 50 mm, marked 900 

# 

 with swords

51.2 mm, marked SiLBER too 

# 

 

50.67 mm 

# 

 

51.56 mm 

[Igor Ostapenko]

this WWI set was sold in Bulgaria few years ago 

[Graf]

Hi Igor,

 

Nice Crosses

Before the Introduction of the Grand Cross The 1st Class Crosses were 54-55 mm wide and the 2nd and 3rd Class were 50-51 mm

 After the introduction of the Grand Cross the Crosses from 3rd to 1st Class were 50-51 mm, however the Grand Cross was 54-55 mm. There are some exceptions when the makers produced Sets with smaller size, I also suspect that some of the Sets on the market could have been "upgraded" over the years by sellers or/and collectors

The Set on the last picture looks OK The Cross looks bigger and the Star has typical for Grand Cross two rings around the central medallion If this Set is yours you can measure the cross

Here is Grand Cross with a wrong Sash, however the cross and the Star are correct