ccj Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 Here’s a nice NCO Jäger tunic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccj Posted January 20, 2022 Author Share Posted January 20, 2022 hello fellow collectors. 1- if anyone had period photo of Jager Bn 4 soldiers please share 2- If anyone wants to comment please do... 3- If anyone wants to share a Jager item please share. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bayern Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 With a deep sigh ! A nice piece and in good condition Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccj Posted January 22, 2022 Author Share Posted January 22, 2022 Thank you Bayern, Ive been searching for hours and haven come across any period photos of JBn4 soldiers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v.Perlet Posted January 22, 2022 Share Posted January 22, 2022 (edited) Hm..., in which non Bavarian Regiment was this Jäger-Bataillion 4 integrated? I am only aware of a Bayerisches Schneeschuhbataillon IV, that was also termed/integrated as IV./Jäger-Regiment Nr. 3 The Magdeburg Jäger-Bataillion 4. uniform that I saw on the internet, does not match the colors of the one ccj posted. https://derrittmeister.com/product/enlisted-mans-jager-bataillon-nr-4-tunic-prussia/ Regards v.Perlet Edited January 22, 2022 by v.Perlet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v.Perlet Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 hello ccj, I just realized that maybe the term Bataillion might mix up things - since the shoulder-boards or epaulets only refer to the respective Regiment. So are you looking for the 4th Bataillion of what Regiment? Or are you searching for items, photos in regards to the 4th Jaeger Regiment? Regards v.Perlet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 (edited) Hello! The tunic in the link is the pre-war uniform. The photo here shows the field-grey tunic. It the uniform of the 4th OR the 4th reserve-Jäger-Bataillon. After the battle of Lüttich the Jg.Btl.4 came under command of Higher-Cavalry-Commander 7. Later it came to 2nd Cavalry-Division, later 86th Inf.Div. In 1918 it came to 7th Landwehr-Divison. In March 1918 it belonged to 95.Res.Inf.Brig. during the battle in Finland. Edited January 23, 2022 by The Prussian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v.Perlet Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 Hello The Prussian could you please tell me as to how you identify this uniform to be of the 4th battalion? I fully agree that it is a pre-war uniform. Regards v.Perlet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 Hello! Because of the number 4 upon the shoulder strap. The uniform is a Jäger-tunic. During the war some Jäger-Bataillons formed Jäger-Regiments, but the single bataillons wore their own bataillon-numbers upon the shoulder-straps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v.Perlet Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 Thanks The Prussian, what am I missing? please help me on this Shoulder-boards or epaulet numbers or insignias refer to Regiments Buttons of the shoulder boards refer to the respective Kompanien .......... ? refer to Battalions Regards v.Perlitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 (edited) Right. But if there ain't no regiments, the numbers stand fir bataillons. And there were Company Buttons upon the shoulder straps. The grey Tunic has eagle- Buttons. So it could be Staff of Jäger-Regiment 4. The regimental Staffel of the Jäger-Regiments wore the regimental, not the bataillon-numbers. Edited January 23, 2022 by The Prussian 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v.Perlet Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 (edited) Yes could be, but if there is a Regiment 4, then not just the staff but every member would be wearing a 4 in regards to the Regiment. The eagle button only proves that the respective uniform was worn by a Unteroffizier mit Portepee, e.g. Feldwebel. There was a photo on e-bay (now gone) stating Jäger-Regiment 4. - Weisenfels The uniform ccj shows is a Prussian, so to which Prussian Brigade or Division did this 4th Battalion or 4th Regiment belong to? - thanks. (I mean before the war). Regards v.Perlet Edited January 23, 2022 by v.Perlet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 (edited) No. You´re wrong. Again: Soldiers of the staff of Jg.Rgt.4 had also a 4 upon the shoulder-straps. All other soldiers, serving in the three bataillons wore their own bataillon-number! In peace-time we didn´t had Jäger-Regiments. Each Jäger-Bataillon belonged to the army-corps and not to a Division or a Brigade. IV.Army-Corps 7.Inf.Div. 13.Inf.Brig. (IR26, IR66) 14.Inf.Brig. (IR27, IR163) 7.Kav.Brig. (HR10, UR16) 7.Feldart.Brig. (FAR4, FAR40) 8.Inf.Div. 15.Inf.Brig. (FR36, IR93) 16.Inf.brig. (IR72, IR153) 8.Kav.Brig. (KR7, HR12) 8.Feldart,Brig. (FAR74, FAR75) Corps-Troops Jg.Btl.4 Fußart.Rgt.4 Pio.Btl.4 Train-Btl.4 The Jg.Btl.4 never was part of Jg.Rgt. As I wrote above, they belonged to the cavalry and they were late at war in Finland. We had the following Jg.Rgt.: Formed 1915: Bavarian Jg.Rgt.1 (1.bav.Jg.Btl., 2.bav.Jg.Btl., bav.Res.Jg.Btl.2) Jg.Rgt.2 (Jg.Btl.10, Res.Jg.Btl.10, Res.Jg.Btl.14) Jg.Rgt.3 (I.Btl. from Snowshoe-Btl.1, II. from Snowshoe-Btl. II, III. from Snowshoe-Btl.II, IV.Btl. from different units) Formed 1916: Jg.Rgt.4 (Jg.Btl.11, Res.Jg.Btl.5, Jg.Btl.6) Jg.Rgt.5 (Res.Jg.Btl.17, Res.Jg.Btl.18, Res.Jg.Btl.23) Jg.Rgt.6 (Jg.Btl.5, Jg.Btl.6, Jg.Btl.14) saxon Jg.Rgt.7 (sax. Jg.Btl.13, sax. Res.Jg.Btl.25, sax. Res.Jg.Btl.26) Jg.Rgt.8 (Res.Jg.Btl.4, Res.Jg.Btl.16, Res.Jg.Btl.24) Jg.Rgt.9 (Jg.Btl.8, sax,. Res.Jg.Btl.12, I./Ldw.Inf.Rgt.15*) * replaced 1917 by sax. Res.Jg.Btl.13, regiment dissolved later in 1917 saxon Jg.Rgt.10 (sax. Res.Jg.Btl.12, sax. Res.Jg.Btl.13) Jg.Rgt.11 (Garde-Res.Jg.Btl., Garde-Res.Schützen-Btl., Jg.Btl.1) Jg.Rgt.12 (Jg.Btl.2, Res.Jg.Btl.1, Jg.Btl.7) Jg.Rgt.13 (Res.Jg.Btl.8, Res.Jg.Btl.20, Res.Jg.Btl.21) Jg.Rgt.14 (Res.Jg.Btl.15, Res.Jg.Btl.19, Res.Jg.Btl.22) bavarian Jg.Rgt.15 (formed 1918 with caucasian Jg.Rgt.1, bavarian Res.Jg.Btl.1 and liberated POWs) Edited January 23, 2022 by The Prussian 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v.Perlet Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 (edited) Hello The Prussian, Sorry, sorry, off course you are correct that Jäger-Regiments were only formed upon the war. As such the pre-war uniform posted by ccj - displays the Battalion Nr. I had totally forgotten about that matter. - thanks for your reminder. Why didn't you remind me about this in the first place? ?? Regards v.Perlet Edited January 23, 2022 by v.Perlet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 Hello! Why is it a pre-war uniform? Well... it´s a field-grey uniform, introduced in 1907, but usually used in the war. The uniform you showed us in the link is a so-called "Bunter Rock", in use all the years before 1907.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v.Perlet Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 "Bunter Rock" yes true also, my bad ? Regards v.Perlet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccj Posted January 23, 2022 Author Share Posted January 23, 2022 Nice information this is, IMO, an NCO tunic for J Bn4. I’m still looking for period photos of Jäger Bn4 troops and some battle history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 (edited) Hello! You can download the war-time bataillon-history for free here: https://digital.wlb-stuttgart.de/sammlungen/sammlungsliste/werksansicht?tx_dlf[id]=567&tx_dlf[page]=1&cHash=a800b8d918663a3fb1c6fa2064edf485 (click above right on: "ganzes Werk herunterladen") But are you sure with JB4? It also could be RJB4. The history of RJB4 you can find here: https://digital.wlb-stuttgart.de/sammlungen/sammlungsliste/werksansicht?tx_dlf[id]=8212&tx_dlf[page]=1&cHash=1c4fd9c7d698536069f603db52752fdb Edited January 24, 2022 by The Prussian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v.Perlet Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 (edited) Hello ccj, yes more or less impossible to find anything of interest in the World Wide Web regarding Magdeburger Jg-Btl. 4 The first photo could be a member of that unit - the kid barely grew above his rifle. The second group photo on the reverse side-upper right, seems to mention J 4 How Weize identifies the shoulder-board being from Magdeburger Jg-Btl. 4 is beyond my knowledge. The last photo could also maybe be from the 4th Foot-artillery or Pioneer-unit - you guys know better. Questions on my part: was this Jg.Btl.4 a mounted unit? Is the ribbon on the sleeve (shown on your first posted photo) a distinctive sign for a Jäger unit? Regards v.Perlet Edited January 24, 2022 by v.Perlet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v.Perlet Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 (edited) Hello The Prussian, sorry I oversaw your previous question regarding "pre-war" uniform. I thought your initial remark (pre-war uniform) was placed towards the "Bunter Rock" photo I posted. Therefore I posted, yes I fully agree. My mistake was that I assumed that the 4 (in yellow) would remain on the 1907 issue, and not become red. This I should have pointed out - instead of wrongly or stupidly stating, the uniforms color doesn't match.... The pre-war uniform I mentioned in regards to ccj's shown photo, yes I believe it is a pre-war uniform introduced to my little knowledge around 1910. (you stated 1907, which is fine by me) Since both uniforms, the Bunter Rock and the ccj uniform are both made before 1910 - why did the Btl. number color change? Regards v.Perlet Edited January 24, 2022 by v.Perlet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 Hello! A good question. I don´t know... I think it was easier to take a red one in the war time, because they had enough of red wool, and not too much of yellow ones. Maybe they thought a yellow one would be more conspicuous in the field... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccj Posted January 27, 2022 Author Share Posted January 27, 2022 Thanks, good info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bayern Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 21 minutes ago, ccj said: Thanks, good info. With wartime collar lace matt gold piped white ( according Knotel ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v.Perlet Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 (edited) Maybe I am wrongly addicted in regards to the seriousness of German military obedience towards military regulations - especially during Willis time. What I noticed in that respect, is that none of the so far forwarded photos depicting a 4 matches (in layout/design) the one on ccj's uniform. (especially in regards to the Keil-wedge, that ends on the horizontal line of the 4) Is there a documentation that clarifies that this Vizefeldwebel Kasparow served in the Magdeburger 4 Jaeger battalion?. (if so I take everything back)? Regards v.Perlet Edited January 27, 2022 by v.Perlet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccj Posted January 28, 2022 Author Share Posted January 28, 2022 Im not sure what you mean and why you would take back anything... There are variations from time to time on the numbers and cyphers on shoulder straps. The tunic is 100% correct and the straps are original to the tunic. I have send photos to a few other advanced collectors for iopinions of this tunic inside and out. As for the photos of Vizefeldwebel Kasparow, He was a NCO in Reserve Jager Bataillon Nr. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now