Farkas Posted August 6, 2023 Share Posted August 6, 2023 (edited) Hi Gents, i’ve got a couple of Karl Truppen Kreuz with a GW makers mark and as far as i know the maker is unidentified. Has anyone got a GW mark or maybe even know who it is? cheers tony Edited August 6, 2023 by Farkas Photos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graham Posted August 6, 2023 Share Posted August 6, 2023 I have a GW 18 on an A-H wound medal: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graf Posted August 6, 2023 Share Posted August 6, 2023 (edited) 11 hours ago, Farkas said: Hi Gents, i’ve got a couple of Karl Truppen Kreuz with a GW makers mark and as far as i know the maker is unidentified. Has anyone got a GW mark or maybe even know who it is? cheers tony Hi Tony, I looked in my files.Yes, it looks a mystery mark The only thing that I can suggest that this could be a cities of Graz -G and Vienna (Wien) -W marrks But why two cities? Mystery. I hope someone with more deep knowledge in to the Austrian Makers Marks can come with some hint Other option is if GW stand for name/s G could be for Gebruder and W for the family name if the company was run by at least two Brothers Mystery Cheers Edited August 6, 2023 by Graf 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farkas Posted August 6, 2023 Author Share Posted August 6, 2023 6 hours ago, graham said: I have a GW 18 on an A-H wound medal: Yes, that’s exactly the mark Graham... 5 hours ago, Graf said: Hi Tony, I looked in my files.Yes, it looks a mystery mark The only thing that I can suggest that this could be a cities of Graz -G and Vienna (Wien) -W marrks But why two cities? Mystery. I hope someone with more deep knowledge in to the Austrian Makers Marks can come with some hint Other option is if GW stand for name/s G could be for Gebruder and W for the family name if the company was run by at least two Brothers Mystery Cheers Thanks for looking Graf, I couldn’t find a name for it, the few examples i found were ‘unidentified’ and i wanted to make sure those sources were upto date, so thanks 👍👍 So Gents, i think i may have cracked it 🤞 But what do think of this suggestion?👇 Gottlieb Wellner A German silversmiths which operated until 1946 from, some sources say, 1850. (but certainly existed by 1900) The usual mark attributed to them is GOWE At times a different GW mark (also seen above) was used 👇 by them. I don’t believe that 2 different coexisting firms would ever use the same letters for their marks. So.,. I dont think attributing these medals and this GW mark to Gottlieb Wellner is too much of a stretch, especially as no other matches for the initials GW are apparent. What do you think? All thoughts and opinions welcomed as always 👍 cheers tony 🍻 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graf Posted August 6, 2023 Share Posted August 6, 2023 Nice work Worth exploring further If we can trace more items we might get more information Cheers 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farkas Posted August 7, 2023 Author Share Posted August 7, 2023 1 hour ago, Graf said: Nice work Worth exploring further If we can trace more items we might get more information Cheers Good suggestion, I found this excellent page about the Wellner family business history, there was a business partner called Gaedt and a brother called Gustav, ‘Chief smelter’, so a few more G possibilities 👍 https://www.ascasonline.org/articoloMARZ155.html tony🍻 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graf Posted August 7, 2023 Share Posted August 7, 2023 6 hours ago, Farkas said: Good suggestion, I found this excellent page about the Wellner family business history, there was a business partner called Gaedt and a brother called Gustav, ‘Chief smelter’, so a few more G possibilities 👍 https://www.ascasonline.org/articoloMARZ155.html tony🍻 Good detective job Tony. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farkas Posted August 8, 2023 Author Share Posted August 8, 2023 I was surprised that ‘Gebruder’ was such a frequently found name amongst medal makers… you live and learn 😊 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farkas Posted August 12, 2023 Author Share Posted August 12, 2023 Well Gents, I’ve looked into this for ages now… there is no recognised maker known to use GW. There are a few German makers including Wellner who it could match, after all KTK were made for veterans in the 30’s and GW could be one of them but there is one reference claiming to identify it. I still wouldn’t bet the mortgage on this because it was/is only one reference in a ‘for sale’ ad, however it is an Austrian maker and who am I to discount it. On 06/08/2023 at 12:55, graham said: I have a GW 18 on an A-H wound medal: Graham, thanks for this 👆, it was the 18 that led me to it, it was also a wound medal, apparently marked GW&18 and representing Grossman, Vienna. Though other Grossman marks exist and no records of this one does… I’m going with Grossman. cheers tony 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graham Posted August 12, 2023 Share Posted August 12, 2023 Good work Farkas. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farkas Posted August 17, 2023 Author Share Posted August 17, 2023 Hi Gents, Why didn’t I just leave it at that…🤷♂️ I couldn’t though. On the rim of a thin KTK a simplified makers mark is understandable but there is plenty of space on Grahams wound medal for Grossmans usual mark. I’ve been looking for others so I kept looking for GW and I found one. In theory, it has to be him. The GW is his makers mark. Unless the business had ceased trading by 1916 and it was up for grabs? I can’t get any results for him or his business on Google, even with ‘Wilde’ and ‘Wildt’. I guess there are some in German but it just isn’t matching me with them. Any thoughts Gents? tony 🍻 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unmo300 Posted September 11, 2023 Share Posted September 11, 2023 (edited) GW - Győrffy és Wolf Fémipari Részvénytársaság. Edited September 11, 2023 by unmo300 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graham Posted September 12, 2023 Share Posted September 12, 2023 Thanks unmo300. Very interesting, do you have any examples you can share? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farkas Posted September 12, 2023 Author Share Posted September 12, 2023 On 11/09/2023 at 21:06, unmo300 said: GW - Győrffy és Wolf Fémipari Részvénytársaság. Thanks unmo300, i’m keen to pin these makers down if i can and this one wasn’t settled for me. Can you expand on anything for me please? It would be great to have a reference to place on here if possible, 👍 I’m translating (from Hungarian) as Győrffy és Wolf - Győrffy & Wolf (names Fémipari - Metallurgical Részvénytársaság - (joint stock) company Is this roughly it? ‘Győrffy & Wolf Metalwork Company’ 8 hours ago, graham said: Thanks unmo300. Very interesting, do you have any examples you can share? Did you already have knowledge of Győrffy & Wolf and the GW mark? A lot of questions i know, my apologies and thanks in advance! tony 🍻 Ps i wonder if i am related?? 😊 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlo Posted October 8, 2023 Share Posted October 8, 2023 On 8/17/2023 at 2:57 AM, Farkas said: Hi Gents, Why didn’t I just leave it at that…🤷♂️ I couldn’t though. On the rim of a thin KTK a simplified makers mark is understandable but there is plenty of space on Grahams wound medal for Grossmans usual mark. I’ve been looking for others so I kept looking for GW and I found one. In theory, it has to be him. The GW is his makers mark. Unless the business had ceased trading by 1916 and it was up for grabs? I can’t get any results for him or his business on Google, even with ‘Wilde’ and ‘Wildt’. I guess there are some in German but it just isn’t matching me with them. Any thoughts Gents? tony 🍻 Interesting, it could be, it's a shame we don't have a box to add a few more elements to the search... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farkas Posted October 9, 2023 Author Share Posted October 9, 2023 On 08/10/2023 at 01:00, Carlo said: Interesting, it could be, it's a shame we don't have a box to add a few more elements to the search... I agree, i’ve been looking into these marks for at least 6 months now. It might be time to accept there is a reason these marks are still considered unidentified. There are numerous businesses with the correct initials, unfortunately the ‘unknown’ KTK marks are likely not even regular makers marks, which would be distinguishable from each other. Also, it appears, there is the use of metalworks and others not usually involved in medal making to consider. tony 🍻 Search for GW, nearly 6 months. 👇 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graf Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 3 minutes ago, Farkas said: I agree, i’ve been looking into these marks for at least 6 months now. It might be time to accept there is a reason these marks are still considered unidentified. There are numerous businesses with the correct initials, unfortunately the ‘unknown’ KTK marks are likely not even regular makers marks, which would be distinguishable from each other. Also, it appears, there is the use of metalworks and others not usually involved in medal making to consider. tony 🍻 Search for GW, nearly 6 months. 👇 Nice work Tony 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farkas Posted October 10, 2023 Author Share Posted October 10, 2023 1 hour ago, Graf said: Nice work Tony Cheers Graf 🍻🍻 On 11/09/2023 at 21:06, unmo300 said: GW - Győrffy és Wolf Fémipari Részvénytársaság. On 12/09/2023 at 21:43, Farkas said: Thanks unmo300, i’m keen to pin these makers down if i can and this one wasn’t settled for me. Can you expand on anything for me please? It would be great to have a reference to place on here if possible, 👍 I’m translating (from Hungarian) as Győrffy és Wolf - Győrffy & Wolf (names Fémipari - Metallurgical Részvénytársaság - (joint stock) company Is this roughly it? ‘Győrffy & Wolf Metalwork Company’ Did you already have knowledge of Győrffy & Wolf and the GW mark? A lot of questions i know, my apologies and thanks in advance! tony 🍻 Ps i wonder if i am related?? 😊 I’d love to hear a little more about this company... ☝️ Győrffy és Wolf Fémipari Részvénytársaság. On 17/08/2023 at 01:57, Farkas said: Hi Gents, Why didn’t I just leave it at that…🤷♂️ I couldn’t though. On the rim of a thin KTK a simplified makers mark is understandable but there is plenty of space on Grahams wound medal for Grossmans usual mark. I’ve been looking for others so I kept looking for GW and I found one. In theory, it has to be him. The GW is his makers mark. Unless the business had ceased trading by 1916 and it was up for grabs? I can’t get any results for him or his business on Google, even with ‘Wilde’ and ‘Wildt’. I guess there are some in German but it just isn’t matching me with them. Any thoughts Gents? tony 🍻 Gustav Wild is still a possibility to me ☝️ Grossman Wien has to be too👇 On 12/08/2023 at 05:36, Farkas said: Well Gents, I’ve looked into this for ages now… there is no recognised maker known to use GW. There are a few German makers including Wellner who it could match, after all KTK were made for veterans in the 30’s and GW could be one of them but there is one reference claiming to identify it. I still wouldn’t bet the mortgage on this because it was/is only one reference in a ‘for sale’ ad, however it is an Austrian maker and who am I to discount it. Graham, thanks for this 👆, it was the 18 that led me to it, it was also a wound medal, apparently marked GW&18 and representing Grossman, Vienna. Though other Grossman marks exist and no records of this one does… I’m going with Grossman. cheers tony So for now i’m going to (try to) leave it at those 3... a confident vote from unmo300 : Győrffy és Wolf Fémipari Részvénytársaság. a 3rd party identification : Grossman Wien a jeweller with a matching GW mark : Gustav Wild ———————— Thanks for the support/input Gents. It makes all the difference... tony 🍻🍻 On 12/08/2023 at 11:22, graham said: Good work Farkas. 2 hours ago, Graf said: Nice work Tony On 08/10/2023 at 01:00, Carlo said: Interesting, it could be, it's a shame we don't have a box to add a few more elements to the search... On 11/09/2023 at 21:06, unmo300 said: GW - Győrffy és Wolf Fémipari Részvénytársaság. 👍👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farkas Posted October 15, 2023 Author Share Posted October 15, 2023 On 06/08/2023 at 12:55, graham said: I have a GW 18 on an A-H wound medal: I think the 18 on yours might be the year of issue, there is another example of a wound medal , I’ve forgotten the maker (KM/KMT?) with 1919 on it. tony🍻 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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