Landsturm J?ger

[Chris Boonzaier]

I just found award document to landsturmmann kr?ger of the 17. R.J?g.Batln.

I was under the impression that there were no "Ersatz" "Landwehr" od "Landsturm" J?gers? Just regular J?ger or reserve-J?ger....

Can anyone give any help in this direction?

Thanks

Chris

[Guest Rick Research]

The unit was RESERVE. The private's personal status was "Landsturmmann" based on his age. He could have been called "J?ger," "Reservist," "Ersatz-Reservist," or "Landwehrmann" all based on his age and previous military service.

[Chris Boonzaier]

It is however the first J?gr award doc I have seen where the man has been something other than J?ger ot Reservist.

Best

chris

[Guest Rick Research]

Glenn can no doubt give a more scientific answer, because depending on when in the war, Kr?ger could either have been middle aged or an underaged teenager and borne this "Private" designation.

What it means, I think, is that he was a replacement from a general infantry-trained recruit pool, randomly assigned to this J?ger unit. I've got photos of men wearing 3 button cuff line infantry tunics with J?ger shakos who must have been the same sort of replacements.

Making scans-- back in a bit.

[Guest Rick Research]

Some 5. Reserve J?ger Bataillon friends of Carl Willy Wild. He had been a recruit in Hessian Infanterie Regiment 116 in December 1915, when his rank was "Musketier." Unfortunately his later photos from this unit (so stamped in one that was mailed) do not show if he continued to be called that, or if he was transformed into a "J?ger." What the photos DO show is numerous M1910 INFANTRY tunics being worn with "5" J?ger straps, and mixed person in J?ger and infantry tunics, all wearing J?ger Feldm?tzen and shakos.

[attachmentid=38706]

[Guest Rick Research]

The young Walt Disney lookalike has no number on his shako. These bear dates in a January without any year-- 1916?

[attachmentid=38707]

[Guest Rick Research]

And this sniper in a "spider hole" wearing feety pajamas... oops, waterproof (hopefully) leggings, and using what appears to be a shaving mirror (probably didn't NEED it) as a personal trench periscope surrogate:

[attachmentid=38708]

J?ger headgear, infantry tunics all.

So what were they called, for ranks?

[Daniel Murphy]

A private by any other name is still a private. If a private was in an infantry regiment, he was a Musketier. If he transferred to a jager battalion, he would be referred to as a Jager. If he was then transferred to an artillery unit he would be a Kannonier. This applies as long as he is actually transferred to the unit. The rank of Musketier would be crossed through on his soldbuch and militar pass and the new rank of Jager would be written in. If he is a Musketier temporarily attached to a jager battalion that has suffered heavy casualties (for instance), his official rank would still be Musketier. In that case he would still wear infantry uniform, headgear and fieldgear. During the war, there was a shortage of uniforms. A man transferred to another type of unit would not necessarily receive a new uniform or shoulder straps since they might not be available to be issued. When the units supply system received a new shipment of uniforms and shoulderstraps, they would then be issued out to those in need. This may take a few weeks or a few months. Even then, if the man had a serviceable uniform (no matter what kind) he would probably not recieve a new one, just straps. The supply officer or NCO did not care care what kind of uniform it was as long as it was serviceable. If the supply NCO wanted to issue him one, but he wore an extra small or extra large uniform, he was probably still out of luck. Most of the uniforms received would be in medium sizes.

The next thought is... If the man was issued a uniform just because he transferred to that unit, what would the unit do with the other uniform? Now they have a uniform that they cannot issue, the only choice would be to return it back up the line for reissue to another unit. The unit has now gone from having a uniform in the field and having a uniform in supply, to just having a uniform in the field. When you look at it like this, it just does not make sense to issue that new uniform when faced with severe shortages during wartime.

Dan Murphy

Edited May 12, 2006 by Daniel Murphy

[Chris Boonzaier]

A private by any other name is still a private. If a private was in an infantry regiment, he was a Musketier.

Not only Musketier....

From a randon array of Regular and Reserve infantry regt EK docs... All names for Privates. Musketier is not any or less comman than infanterist or Landsturmmann.

Landsturmmann, Reservist, Grenadier, F?silier, Wehrmann, Ersatz-reservist, Infantrist, Musketier, Landsturmmann-Rekrut, Sch?tze, Landwehrmann, Soldat (Kriegsfreiwilliger, Soldat, Kriegsfreiwilliger,

best

chris

[joerookery]

because depending on when in the war, Kr?ger could either have been middle aged or an underaged teenager and borne this "Private" designation.

Rick is spot on. It was more systematic in the Landwehr.

. Looking at the start of the war. The active-duty soldiers were those who had turned 20 in 1912 and 1913, which were born in 1892 and 1893. The reservists, where the next five classes: 1891, 1890, 1889, 1888, and 1887. There were more reservists than there were positions in the active regiment. Left over reservists formed or filled out other units.

Active Units :

54% active duty soldiers

46% Reserve soldiers.

Reserve Units:

1% active duty soldiers

44% Reserve soldiers.

55% Landwehr soldiers from the 1st Ban

Landwehr Units:

62% Landwehr soldiers from the 1st Ban

38% Landwehr soldiers from the 2nd Ban

What I do not understand is what does 5th J?ger have to do with JR116? Yet there he is with a marked shako!

[Guest Rick Research]

Yup, a little clump went right from late 1915 recruit training in pre-war blue tunics, big Hessian crown belt buckles... to the front in INFANTRY tunics, which they then wore with J?GER headgear and shoulder straps. The rest of the group photos aren't good enough-- field groups, posed in the barnyard with M. and Mme. and les petites enfants and so on.

Who in 2006 would believe an M1910 infantry tunic with J?ger straps? Not me-- if I didn't have the photographic proof.

[joerookery]

Ahhhhh but then we have this! A Hessian Shako!?!?!?!?! No shoulder straps.

[Chris Boonzaier]

What date would the avove photo be from? I would have thought most J?ger troops would have had the G98...

[Chris Boonzaier]

Hi,

\

anyone have an approx date for the pic above?

Thanks

Chris

[Naxos]

Prussian J?ger with M1910 Infanterie Rock

[joerookery]

anyone have an approx date for the pic above?

Chris I would imagine it is 1914. This guy is not a J?ger but rather a Landsturm soldier. There was no such thing as a Hessian shako during WW1. This is an old-style shako that had been worn in Hesse quite a while ago which was required to be maintained. This had to be taken out of storage and used early in the war.