1939 EK1 with screw back Opinion needed

[Graf]

Hi

i was offered this 1939 EK1 with screw back

Opinion wanted  - Original or Fake

 

Regards

[Alex K]

Hi, for me personally, I would say I floch based on the obverse low date.

Regards Alex k

[Graf]

53 minutes ago, Alex K said:

Hi, for me personally, I would say I floch based on the obverse low date.

Regards Alex k

Thank you Alex

I also do not feel very comfortable with this

I hope some other members will give their opinion

[Graf]

10 hours ago, Alex K said:

Hi, for me personally, I would say I floch based on the obverse low date.

Regards Alex k

Hi Alex

I decided to decline the offer   Too risky    My research showed that this EK1 has too many Floch features

 

Regards

[Alex K]

1 hour ago, Graf said:

Hi Alex

I decided to decline the offer   Too risky    My research showed that this EK1 has too many Floch features

 

Regards

Yep, wise move, personally speaking

[Farkas]

6 hours ago, Graf said:

Hi Alex

I decided to decline the offer   Too risky    My research showed that this EK1 has too many Floch features

 

Regards

Hi Graf,

If it was a genuine example, how much does one of these tend to go for?

 

Cheers

tony 🍻

[Graf]

1 minute ago, Farkas said:

Hi Graf,

If it was a genuine example, how much does one of these tend to go for?

 

Cheers

tony 🍻

 

Hi Tony

Between 450 and 700 Euro The offer was less then this amount I suspect the dealer knew It did not specify as Original

Apart from the l low located year The swastica is very low from the edge of the silver tread, the clum shell disc was typical as the one on the picture above

 

Other thing which bothered me  was this fresh rust yellow- red collor

and mos of all the Guts feeling

[Farkas]

I agree about the gut 👍 and particularly with higher price items. A trusting relationship with the seller helps too.

 

Just found this interesting thread, some interesting opinions to be found.
 

tony 🍻

[Graf]

12 hours ago, Farkas said:

I agree about the gut 👍 and particularly with higher price items. A trusting relationship with the seller helps too.

 

Just found this interesting thread, some interesting opinions to be found.
 

tony 🍻

Thank you Tony I looked this thread as well

The WW2  German Orders and decorations is like a mine field That is why i gave up on this Period and sold that part of mine collection The Fakers are becoming very good Perhaps they read our Forum and other similar like it and correct their mistakes

 

Cheers

[Motorhead]

Don't think that at the imerial front it's any better. You've got do do your homework, built up a good picture archive and a network of fellow collectors. 

Micha

[Farkas]

I read a while back that it’s not just the fakers knowledge that has improved their work but their ability to recreate accurately, not so much reliance on sand casting now. Getting the correct weight is no longer (such) a problem with modern materials/alloys. Also modern techniques can recreate the finer details better than ever.

 

There are sites now that will recreate uniforms from pictures, hand made in India, it’s getting very difficult to trust your eyes, luckily they haven’t got the linings quite right yet

 

Myself, not in this case but in some others, I know enough to say ‘no, that’s bad’ but am still seldom confident to say ‘yes, that’s good’.

 

The only positive (if buying not selling) I guess is that copies/fakes bring down the prices of the genuine pieces.

I’ve said on here before, I stopped buying postcards and RPPC because I found a fake amongst my collection, that ended it for me there and then… those modern printers are so good sadly.

 

6 hours ago, Motorhead said:

Don't think that at the imerial front it's any better. You've got do do your homework, built up a good picture archive and a network of fellow collectors. 

Micha

100% Thank goodness for the learned Gents on here. 👍

 

tony 🍻

 

 

[Bernd_W]

1 hour ago, Farkas said:

The only positive (if buying not selling) I guess is that copies/fakes bring down the prices of the genuine pieces.

I dont think so. There are people with hole fake collections and they will never know because they dont show it of. Look at the eBay fakes thread, plenty of fakes are pumped out every week. Most sell for market prices.

 

1 hour ago, Farkas said:

I’ve said on here before, I stopped buying postcards and RPPC because I found a fake amongst my collection, that ended it for me there and then… those modern printers are so good sadly.

Can you please elaborate this? Are you talking about WW1 or WW2? Don't know about WW2, but WW1 postcards are IMO one of the last safe harbors. Some Sanke Cards are faked, because they are also period mass-produced, so it's easy to sell plenty of fakes. But for postcards you can technically only sell one or a few (when using several markets like Europe, US and SEA) fakes of an unpublished postcard you own. If you sell more, especially at niche markets where higher prices are paid, collectors will notice, because most postcards are not mass-produced, they show 4 people there are likely only 4 copies. And It's very unlikely these 4 cards are popping up on eBay in a few months. Also, you need the real card, which cost you some money, so it's not a worthwhile Business. 

Edited June 1 by Bernd_W

[Motorhead]

To copy cardbord of paper isn't easy, You have to find exactely the right cardbord or paper.With photos its easy because you can find old original photo paper. But old paper or cardboard is a different thing!

[Stogieman]

Good Morning Gentlemen, an interesting thread. After all my years I find myself feeling that I have to confirm everything that I consider. Unless it’s coming from a known source, collection or dealer, the market has become that unstable and flooded with garbage!! We all make mistakes and I’m trying not to make the same ones twice!!

[Bernd_W]

7 hours ago, Motorhead said:

To copy cardbord of paper isn't easy, You have to find exactely the right cardbord or paper.With photos its easy because you can find old original photo paper. But old paper or cardboard is a different thing!

What do you mean with cardbord or paper? CDVs? Or are you talking about award certificates? WW2 Award certificates are faked, IMO much more then photos.

 

There are some WW2 fakes onto the after WW2 produced 3 stokes Agfa Brovira paper (3 strike above the "Agfa Brovira" writing). These can fool the uneducated collector. These papers, or the 2 strokes before 1945 paper, you might find as some old stock or at eBay. But I highly doubt, this is the same when it comes to the WW1 papers, it's long ago, and if you find one, it's questionable if it can be used.

Edited June 2 by Bernd_W

[Motorhead]

Of course you can fake a lot of things-but paper from the imperial time is different. To old, to dry and even when you find something you can't use a modern printer or even a modern printing press. Not impossible, but really a lot of action with limited profit at the end.

[Bernd_W]

Thats also my thoughts, especially when it comes to Imperial. Only know about the Sanke card fakes and when it comes to imperial award certificates I never heard of fakes.

[Stogieman]

There are copies of Imperial German Award Documents on US eBay right now. They were listed as copies and they don’t look very good but they are out there 

[Bernd_W]

A copy listed as a copy is not a copy its a reproduction. 

But I have to correct myself, sure there are copies of Imperial German Award Documents. Saw a Sturmbataillon Rohr one here or at WAF once. And it was one of the better once clearly to fool collectors, and not sold as a copy.

Edited June 2 by Bernd_W

[Farkas]

On 01/06/2024 at 21:50, Bernd_W said:

Can you please elaborate this? Are you talking about WW1 or WW2? Don't know about WW2, but WW1 postcards are IMO one of the last safe harbors.

It was a German or AustroHungarian Ww1 Rppc or postcard with the reverse completed.

 

The writing was edge to edge and in a couple of places the person writing had ‘gone off the edge’ on the original

Whoever had printed ‘my copy’ hadn’t lined it up well enough and there was a slight unprinted border, a white strip on one edge.

 

That highlighted the couple of words that originally went to the edge now being cut off by the border, not the limits of the card. 

 

I hope that makes sense 🤞

 

I seldom bought anything even remotely pricey, I was happy just to check purchases were UV neg just for peace of mind, which they always were, this one included.

99% came from the same few sources.

Just spotting this one took the wind out of my sails so to speak, I relied on the judgement of my sources not my own so much.

 I’m 

I’m sure I’ve still got it, it’ll be tucked away, segregated in a tin I expect.

If I can find it I’ll post a picture.

 

Cheers

tony 🍻

 

 

[Farkas]

29 minutes ago, Farkas said:

I’m sure I’ve still got it, it’ll be tucked away, segregated in a tin I expect.

If I can find it I’ll post a picture.

This isn’t the one above I was looking for, I don’t even remember it but I doubt it helped at the time…

 

top edge 

 

 

tony 🍻

[Bernd_W]

1 hour ago, Farkas said:

This isn’t the one above I was looking for, I don’t even remember it but I doubt it helped at the time…

 

But you also think this card is printed with the reverse, or so to speak, faked? Or is this a fine card, just with an example of the missing top edge? 

 

It's hard to tell from a picture, but IMO the stamps and the writing looks not printed. And the top edge might be cut off, see the "Allgäu" or the floating text to the left, if the writing would be more centered and the sender writing would be onto the card, this would be missing. So even if it's centered the card would be too small, so IMO the top of the card with parts of the sender was cut off. 

 

I don't know about how much a Leibregiment and Alpenkorps card with a total non-unique picture would be worth. But I guess no or never more than 50€, so faking a card like this with a printed reverse would be not a so worthwhile business which could fool the educated collector. Even if you use a total genuine "Eroberter feindlicher Schützengraben" card, which might be worth 5€ and make it up (which is done with genuine WW2 Soldbuchs or Wehrpasses and fake entries) to a 50€ card, its IMO very easy to spot the reverse is printed only. Real pencil can be smeared with your moist finger also a hundred years later. Also stamps like this leaves marks which can be still seen today. I had a card a couple of days ago, where a stamp collector removed the stamp, and I wanted to know the date, unfortunately I was only able to see the marks of the day.

 

Just my 2 cents about this topic, I don't doubt your story, but I would love to see the real card in question.

[Graf]

Just to update After i cancelled the cross It was  presumably sold and it appeared again on the seller site My decision was correct

 

Cheers