Graf Posted May 30 Share Posted May 30 Hi i was offered this 1939 EK1 with screw back Opinion wanted - Original or Fake Regards 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex K Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 Hi, for me personally, I would say I floch based on the obverse low date. Regards Alex k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graf Posted May 31 Author Share Posted May 31 53 minutes ago, Alex K said: Hi, for me personally, I would say I floch based on the obverse low date. Regards Alex k Thank you Alex I also do not feel very comfortable with this I hope some other members will give their opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graf Posted May 31 Author Share Posted May 31 10 hours ago, Alex K said: Hi, for me personally, I would say I floch based on the obverse low date. Regards Alex k Hi Alex I decided to decline the offer Too risky My research showed that this EK1 has too many Floch features Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex K Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 1 hour ago, Graf said: Hi Alex I decided to decline the offer Too risky My research showed that this EK1 has too many Floch features Regards Yep, wise move, personally speaking 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farkas Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 6 hours ago, Graf said: Hi Alex I decided to decline the offer Too risky My research showed that this EK1 has too many Floch features Regards Hi Graf, If it was a genuine example, how much does one of these tend to go for? Cheers tony 🍻 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graf Posted May 31 Author Share Posted May 31 1 minute ago, Farkas said: Hi Graf, If it was a genuine example, how much does one of these tend to go for? Cheers tony 🍻 Hi Tony Between 450 and 700 Euro The offer was less then this amount I suspect the dealer knew It did not specify as Original Apart from the l low located year The swastica is very low from the edge of the silver tread, the clum shell disc was typical as the one on the picture above Other thing which bothered me was this fresh rust yellow- red collor and mos of all the Guts feeling 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farkas Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 I agree about the gut 👍 and particularly with higher price items. A trusting relationship with the seller helps too. Just found this interesting thread, some interesting opinions to be found. tony 🍻 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graf Posted June 1 Author Share Posted June 1 12 hours ago, Farkas said: I agree about the gut 👍 and particularly with higher price items. A trusting relationship with the seller helps too. Just found this interesting thread, some interesting opinions to be found. tony 🍻 Thank you Tony I looked this thread as well The WW2 German Orders and decorations is like a mine field That is why i gave up on this Period and sold that part of mine collection The Fakers are becoming very good Perhaps they read our Forum and other similar like it and correct their mistakes Cheers 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motorhead Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 Don't think that at the imerial front it's any better. You've got do do your homework, built up a good picture archive and a network of fellow collectors. Micha 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farkas Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 I read a while back that it’s not just the fakers knowledge that has improved their work but their ability to recreate accurately, not so much reliance on sand casting now. Getting the correct weight is no longer (such) a problem with modern materials/alloys. Also modern techniques can recreate the finer details better than ever. There are sites now that will recreate uniforms from pictures, hand made in India, it’s getting very difficult to trust your eyes, luckily they haven’t got the linings quite right yet Myself, not in this case but in some others, I know enough to say ‘no, that’s bad’ but am still seldom confident to say ‘yes, that’s good’. The only positive (if buying not selling) I guess is that copies/fakes bring down the prices of the genuine pieces. I’ve said on here before, I stopped buying postcards and RPPC because I found a fake amongst my collection, that ended it for me there and then… those modern printers are so good sadly. 6 hours ago, Motorhead said: Don't think that at the imerial front it's any better. You've got do do your homework, built up a good picture archive and a network of fellow collectors. Micha 100% Thank goodness for the learned Gents on here. 👍 tony 🍻 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernd_W Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 (edited) 1 hour ago, Farkas said: The only positive (if buying not selling) I guess is that copies/fakes bring down the prices of the genuine pieces. I dont think so. There are people with hole fake collections and they will never know because they dont show it of. Look at the eBay fakes thread, plenty of fakes are pumped out every week. Most sell for market prices. 1 hour ago, Farkas said: I’ve said on here before, I stopped buying postcards and RPPC because I found a fake amongst my collection, that ended it for me there and then… those modern printers are so good sadly. Can you please elaborate this? Are you talking about WW1 or WW2? Don't know about WW2, but WW1 postcards are IMO one of the last safe harbors. Some Sanke Cards are faked, because they are also period mass-produced, so it's easy to sell plenty of fakes. But for postcards you can technically only sell one or a few (when using several markets like Europe, US and SEA) fakes of an unpublished postcard you own. If you sell more, especially at niche markets where higher prices are paid, collectors will notice, because most postcards are not mass-produced, they show 4 people there are likely only 4 copies. And It's very unlikely these 4 cards are popping up on eBay in a few months. Also, you need the real card, which cost you some money, so it's not a worthwhile Business. Edited June 1 by Bernd_W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motorhead Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 To copy cardbord of paper isn't easy, You have to find exactely the right cardbord or paper.With photos its easy because you can find old original photo paper. But old paper or cardboard is a different thing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stogieman Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 Good Morning Gentlemen, an interesting thread. After all my years I find myself feeling that I have to confirm everything that I consider. Unless it’s coming from a known source, collection or dealer, the market has become that unstable and flooded with garbage!! We all make mistakes and I’m trying not to make the same ones twice!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernd_W Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 (edited) 7 hours ago, Motorhead said: To copy cardbord of paper isn't easy, You have to find exactely the right cardbord or paper.With photos its easy because you can find old original photo paper. But old paper or cardboard is a different thing! What do you mean with cardbord or paper? CDVs? Or are you talking about award certificates? WW2 Award certificates are faked, IMO much more then photos. There are some WW2 fakes onto the after WW2 produced 3 stokes Agfa Brovira paper (3 strike above the "Agfa Brovira" writing). These can fool the uneducated collector. These papers, or the 2 strokes before 1945 paper, you might find as some old stock or at eBay. But I highly doubt, this is the same when it comes to the WW1 papers, it's long ago, and if you find one, it's questionable if it can be used. Edited June 2 by Bernd_W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motorhead Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 Of course you can fake a lot of things-but paper from the imperial time is different. To old, to dry and even when you find something you can't use a modern printer or even a modern printing press. Not impossible, but really a lot of action with limited profit at the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernd_W Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 Thats also my thoughts, especially when it comes to Imperial. Only know about the Sanke card fakes and when it comes to imperial award certificates I never heard of fakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stogieman Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 There are copies of Imperial German Award Documents on US eBay right now. They were listed as copies and they don’t look very good but they are out there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernd_W Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 (edited) A copy listed as a copy is not a copy its a reproduction. But I have to correct myself, sure there are copies of Imperial German Award Documents. Saw a Sturmbataillon Rohr one here or at WAF once. And it was one of the better once clearly to fool collectors, and not sold as a copy. Edited June 2 by Bernd_W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farkas Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 On 01/06/2024 at 21:50, Bernd_W said: Can you please elaborate this? Are you talking about WW1 or WW2? Don't know about WW2, but WW1 postcards are IMO one of the last safe harbors. It was a German or AustroHungarian Ww1 Rppc or postcard with the reverse completed. The writing was edge to edge and in a couple of places the person writing had ‘gone off the edge’ on the original Whoever had printed ‘my copy’ hadn’t lined it up well enough and there was a slight unprinted border, a white strip on one edge. That highlighted the couple of words that originally went to the edge now being cut off by the border, not the limits of the card. I hope that makes sense 🤞 I seldom bought anything even remotely pricey, I was happy just to check purchases were UV neg just for peace of mind, which they always were, this one included. 99% came from the same few sources. Just spotting this one took the wind out of my sails so to speak, I relied on the judgement of my sources not my own so much. I’m I’m sure I’ve still got it, it’ll be tucked away, segregated in a tin I expect. If I can find it I’ll post a picture. Cheers tony 🍻 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farkas Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 29 minutes ago, Farkas said: I’m sure I’ve still got it, it’ll be tucked away, segregated in a tin I expect. If I can find it I’ll post a picture. This isn’t the one above I was looking for, I don’t even remember it but I doubt it helped at the time… top edge tony 🍻 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernd_W Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 1 hour ago, Farkas said: This isn’t the one above I was looking for, I don’t even remember it but I doubt it helped at the time… But you also think this card is printed with the reverse, or so to speak, faked? Or is this a fine card, just with an example of the missing top edge? It's hard to tell from a picture, but IMO the stamps and the writing looks not printed. And the top edge might be cut off, see the "Allgäu" or the floating text to the left, if the writing would be more centered and the sender writing would be onto the card, this would be missing. So even if it's centered the card would be too small, so IMO the top of the card with parts of the sender was cut off. I don't know about how much a Leibregiment and Alpenkorps card with a total non-unique picture would be worth. But I guess no or never more than 50€, so faking a card like this with a printed reverse would be not a so worthwhile business which could fool the educated collector. Even if you use a total genuine "Eroberter feindlicher Schützengraben" card, which might be worth 5€ and make it up (which is done with genuine WW2 Soldbuchs or Wehrpasses and fake entries) to a 50€ card, its IMO very easy to spot the reverse is printed only. Real pencil can be smeared with your moist finger also a hundred years later. Also stamps like this leaves marks which can be still seen today. I had a card a couple of days ago, where a stamp collector removed the stamp, and I wanted to know the date, unfortunately I was only able to see the marks of the day. Just my 2 cents about this topic, I don't doubt your story, but I would love to see the real card in question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graf Posted yesterday at 08:39 Author Share Posted yesterday at 08:39 Just to update After i cancelled the cross It was presumably sold and it appeared again on the seller site My decision was correct Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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