Jump to content

Soviet Officers' Insignia, 1930s+


Recommended Posts

Before 1943, position/rank was shown on collar patches. Here is a M1935 gimnastyorka and open tunic collar insignia for an army tank corps Captain: black velvet with the gilt edging indicating command personnel.

Commissars and technical officers of all branches had a border in the contrasting color of their branch's visor cap piping, while the main patch was the same color as the visor cap's band.

And the M1940 sleeve chevron rank for this same Captain, on the gray gray specific to armored troops before WW2.

Sleeve chevrons were supposed to be removed after the war started.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Overcoat tabs followed the shape of the collar.

This is a M1931 "Category 10" civil police ("Militia") officer, grade then known as "Major," but in effect-- as the diamond shows-- the same as a military Brigadier General.These have scanned considerably darker than they really are-- civil police and air force both used sky or robin's egg blue.

This police commander was promoted up from the next lowest rank-- three rectangles-- the imprints from those bars can still be seen on the tab left.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In 1943, collar tab ranks were abolished, and tsarist pattern shoulder boards-- the hated "pogony" often nailed to Imperial and White officers' shoulders by Red mobs-- were restored.

ARMY boards for officers below General (see separate Generals Insignia thread) were "ficve sided," removable, with a button at the "/" end.

Here are air force senior lieutenants-- of flying branch with GOLD top and winged propellor devices, and technical personnel, with SILVER tops.

Administrative personnel also had silver tops, but with piping universal to their "Beamten" branches and not a combatant arm, and were a much narrower width.

Notice the wide variation in air force blue color-- on many examples the sky blue is a dull grayish color. Not the result of fading, but apparently simply manufacturer's dye discrepancies.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

State Security wore dark blueberry blue, the same shade as Wehrmacht medical personnel. Despite that, some center stripes and collar tab edgings on SS insignia is the same sky blue as air force-- simply for contrast. It did not make any distinction in function. STATE SECURITY wore SIX sided boards.

Here is a Senior Lieutenant of SS on a M1943 kitel with the "contrast" center stripe,

and an SS Junior Lieutenant of Administrative Branch--notice the difference in width.

This example is also white silk rather than silver bullion.

Finally, on an updated pre-1943 overcoat, a full Colonel of State Security-- a Demigod of the Stalin regime!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Army cavalry also wore blueberry blue piping-- perhaps the model for "elite" State Security use of the same color.

But the ARMY during WW2 had FIVE sided boards, while SS always had SIX. This Lieutenant is wearing M1936 cavalry scout elite specialist collar insignia in place of the normal sabers and horseshoe.

And the SS Colonel's M1943 collar patches, with contrasting color edges. Notice the shape of the collar, which is what pre-1943 tabs like the police officer's shown above fit with.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Although I have read that the silk non-bullion boards were WW2 "Lend Lease" and actually made in the USA (??), this SS Technical (normal width) Major's gimnastyorka has buttons dated 1954.

Any of the gold and silver topped boards were theoretically only to be worn on service uniforms. In the field, much simpler versions in uniform material with only level of rank stripes and stars were to be worn, like this Lieutanant.

In practice, service boards were often worn in the field-- and field boards sometimes on service tunics!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Most military field boards had the single junior officers or double field officers stripes in RED, with the actual branch color as piping and not full underlay.

Here are an air force Major's field boards, 5 sided, so 1943-47, with signals branch insignia.

Although field boards were supposed to have had uniform colored painted stars and devices, most offten normal stars and insignia ssem to have been used.

Since many stars seem to have either been issued in gilt (usually on steel, rarely brass) regardless of "mirror image" to the bullion color, it really isn't possible to tell technical and combatant officers apart on field insignia.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

With the 1943 uniform changes, armored troops lost their distinctive all gray uniforms, and could only be distinguished from artillery troops (same black velvet cap bands and red piping) by the specific branch insignia on their five sided boards.

Apparently unrelated to the 1,2,3 quality markings on clothing, 1,2,3 can sometimes be found stamped on shoulder boards in the three most common shoulder sizes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

At some vague time around 1947 (I have been unable to find the Order decreeing this), army boards too went to the SIX sided pattern. So while there is no way to tell a pre- or post-1947 pair of SS boards into the 1950s, it is possible to date military ones as wartime (five sided) or post-WW2 (six sided) types.

Her is the post-1947 type for a military Technical Engineer, silver tops and the tools distinguishing this specialist from sappers, pioneers, and so on

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 year later...

Sergey, so are you from Moscow or from Tver?

Rick Research: just try the internet translator, like babelfish or something else.

And some info: I posted a link to russian militaria collector's forum, and these shoulderboards (posted there by Sergey) were proven to be fake there. At least, the emblem, as they say, shall not be at these shoulderboards, and the shoulderboards and the emblem were decided to be very oddful.

?

Edited by Takc
Link to comment
Share on other sites

оно требует имени и пароля потребителя. Furthermore, я верю Рик может перевести, но он имеет не cyrillic средство программирования характера установленное на его компьютер.

Or something like that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

оно требует имени и пароля потребителя. Furthermore, я верю Рик может перевести, но он имеет не cyrillic средство программирования характера установленное на его компьютер.

Or something like that.

okai zen ai vil help yu :)

heer it iz ze helpful link

http://www.online-translator.com/srvurl.asp?lang=en

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I will explain.

Our new member Sergey is also registered at russian ww2 forum (just like RichieC, Vodorosl, Denis R,?me?and maybe some others).

He took the picture of shoulderboards from post # 5 and posted them in the ww2 russian forum with a question "What the emblem is this?". Few very educated members replied that the emblem belongs to cavalry scouts, but they have never seen or known that it was worn on the shoulderboards. After, they confirmed that the shoulderboards themselves are very oddful. One of them, a very knowledgeable person and NKVD uniforms expert posted few reasons confirming the fake nature of the shoulderboards, which at least proves it is a mix of items and max is a fake thing.

After seeing that some members here are willing to?buy?them,?I?posted?the?link?to?russian?ww2?forum?topic,?created?by?Sergey, to tell them that no need to hurry with obtaining of these shoulderboards.

Rick, that's it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree-- VERY... odd.

But then so are these:

:rolleyes:

It is, by the way, normally POLITE to ASK someone if their property may be discussed elsewhere. It is not as if my scans are abandoned on long gone internet websites, posted anonymously and "nobody knows who X belongs to." I am here.

I don't post scans from other websites without their owner's permission. So please do not take mine without the courtesy of asking me first.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Rick, all your questions about courtesy and picture postings you may ask directly from Sergey.

It was not me who did it and it also was not MY initiative.

I have explained very clearly what happened.

...

Then, about your shoulderboards.

The golden stripes of non-regular kind on the shoulderboards could be met at those, or earlier, or later times. It also happened for soldiers to wear a handmade shoulderboards. And this is normal. But in your case the matter is the configuration.

Post #5 shoulderboards are at least a mix of boards+emblems+buttons+stars and this configuration is NOT LEGIT.

Very educated and respected experts say that there were NO REGULATIONS which said about such an emblem usage on shoulderboards. The rest config of the shoulderboards tell that the shoulderboards are at least a mix, which was created by someone much much later. The word "mix" is very soft for this case. "Mix" is a minimum of bad what they see.

As maximum - people say that the shoulderboards are fake.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

  • Blog Comments

    • As a theology student my professor, a much published former Naval chaplain, set us an essay, saying that if we could answer that successfully we would be guaranteed  a good degree "Which of the gospel writers was the biggest liar, discuss."   I got a good mark, but  don't want to be burned for heresy.   P
    • As my father used to say: "Tain't so much Pappy's a liar - he just remembers big."  
    • Brian: First, let me say that I always enjoy reading your blog and your "spot on" comments.  Another fine topic with such a broad expansion into so many different facets.  I had watched this a week or two ago and when reading your blog, it reminded me of this great quote.   There is a great video on the origins of "Who was Murphy in Murphy's Law"   Anyway, about mid way through this video, there is this great quote and I think it sums it up quite well to your statem
    • I've received word from the Curator that she has permission to re-open this summer.   We're already making plans for a November event at the Museum.   Michael
    • I recall I did the same on hot days at Old Fort York back in 1973-74 - wool uniforms, and at 90F they would let you take your backpack off.   Michael
×
×
  • Create New...