Romanian Victory Medals

[RobW]

HI Gents,

My latest acquisition - the Romanian Official type.

Hello Bill,

A nice example of an official type you have obtained. It shows very little wear and is in good condition. Congrats!!

Finding the award brevets in a correspondingly good condition is a bit more difficult to achieve.

The ribbon seems to be new - it's very smooth and stiff - and it's a type I haven't seen before. Can anyone say which country it is?

Any comments welcome.

Bill

This ribbon was/is produced in the United States. It is also seen on a number of re-ribboned US vics as well as some of the more recent 'reproductions' that are commonly seen there as well.

Regards,

Rob

Edited March 12, 2012 by RobW

[lambert]

Hello All!

I received yesterday, coming from Romania.

My Romanian VIC, unofficial type 1, I believe that this type was made ​​in France.

Lambert

[RobW]

Hello Lambert,

Thanks for posting.

That is a nice Romanian unofficial variety, with good detail.

You will find that some of the unofficial Romanian varieties are becoming harder to find, with the unofficial type 3a being particularly difficult. They are seen rarely.

Regards,

Rob

Edited April 14, 2012 by RobW

[lambert]

Hello Rob.

Thanks for the comment. I'm glad but this medal in my collection. Really liked the fine quality of the medal.

I did not get an official type, but I'm satisfied with this.

Only this three missing medals to complete!

Lambert

[Kev in Deva]

While not the Romanian Inter-Allied Victory medal per se a nice view of a recipient,

which I recently acquired:-

Note: He is wearing the Romanian Cross of War backwards to show the dates!

Kevin in Deva. :jumping:

[RobW]

Hello Rob.

Only this three missing medals to complete!

Lambert

Hello Lambert,

Which three are you missing?

Rob

Edited May 10, 2012 by RobW

[RobW]

While not the Romanian Inter-Allied Victory medal per se a nice view of a recipient,

which I recently acquired:-

Note: He is wearing the Romanian Cross of War backwards to show the dates!

Kevin in Deva.

Hello Kevin,

It is difficult to determine from the close-up, and as you have the original photo in hand what category do you assess the vic is?

* official or unofficial?

Regards,

Rob

Edited May 10, 2012 by RobW

[lambert]

Hello Lambert,

Which three are you missing?

Rob

Hi Rob.

These are the medals of Cuba, Brazil and Siam

you see, are the most expensive ..

Lambert

[Kev in Deva]

Digital photo of the photo.

In my opinion an Unofficial version of the Romanian Inter-Allied Victory Medal.

The Romanian Cross of War is the gilt Officers version with the dates "1916 - 1918"

he has the clasp "1919" which indicates service outside Romanian proper,

possibly up into Budapest, seeing as the picture is taken by a photographer in Timisoara,

Western Romania.

Kevin in Deva.

Edited May 10, 2012 by Kev in Deva

[johnnymac]

Hi I enclose two photos for everyone enjoyment

Regards, Jim M.

[Kev in Deva]

Hallo johnnymac,

thanks for posting, the second partial picture is very interesting,

as its the first time I have seen a Romanian Officer sporting the Greek

Medal of Military Merit 1917.

Is he named by any chance?

Kevin in Deva.

[lambert]

Yesterday I came across this documentary on youtube about the saga of a brave warrior Romanian. I would share with you.

[media=]

Enjoy

Lambert

Edited May 10, 2012 by lambert

[lambert]

Hallo johnnymac,

thanks for posting, the second partial picture is very interesting,

as its the first time I have seen a Romanian Officer sporting the Greek

Medal of Military Merit 1917.

Is he named by any chance?

Kevin in Deva.

is really fabulous! :love:

[RobW]

In my opinion an Unofficial version of the Romanian Inter-Allied Victory Medal.

The Romanian Cross of War is the gilt Officers version with the dates "1916 - 1918"

he has the clasp "1919" which indicates service outside Romanian proper,

possibly up into Budapest, seeing as the picture is taken by a photographer in Timisoara,

Western Romania.

Kevin in Deva.

Hello Kevin,

Thanks for the close-up.

I have attached a combined composite copy of your picture and another from this sub-topic and it suggests that the medal is the unofficial type 2 or 'Reverse N' variety according to the Laslo reference. The unofficial type 3 has certain other distinguishing features that are not the same as that in this picture.

It is always interesting to see actual pictures of the recipients wearing their medals that we discuss.

Regards,

Rob

[RobW]

To all,

Noting the ongoing conversation regarding a particular Romanian victory medal on the FAKES section I have a comparison to make.

To bring the conversation back to the medals I have posted another Romanian local victory medal conforming to Alex Laslo's 'unofficial type 3'.

Regards,

Rob

[RobW]

Here is the silvered variety that is causing the discussion over on the other sub-thread.

A closer inspection of the silvered version shows that, at least the major areas of the obverse and reverse, are very similar. This would suggest a common manufacturer or die.

Regards,

Rob

Edited August 19, 2012 by RobW

[RobW]

And here is a combined composite of the two.

While there appears to be a reduced level of detail noticeable on the silvered version, especially on the reverse, the common design and features seem to be apparent.

Regards,

Rob

[johnnymac]

To All,

These 5 medals are Romanian medals in my collection. The 6 is the silver medal in question.

If you look at the letter "M" both 5 & 6 are alike. So alike it hard to believe these were made up as unofficial medals in different places. If you will note the top link of the chain, the rim shape and the ring suspension of both 5 & 6 they match without question as does their letter "M".

I doubt that silver medal was not being made by Decision No. 847. Even with drawing all these different medal smith each came up with noticeable differences in their final medal, but not number 6 the one in question.

I trust that all you will agree had medal maker number 5 wanted a medal in silver, he could or would have just stamped one out using his own dies. So why do we find this poor example in silver, was someone faking cast made by using a Number 5 medal?

Edited August 19, 2012 by johnnymac

[lambert]

Although I entered the discussion a little late, and perusing all posts I can conclude, on a personal opnion, the medal "silver Vic Romanian" is an issue "private" a medal copy no-offical type 3 here already mentioned by Robw.

I believe that this is a "unique item", it is not a scam, I take into consideration that it is possible to be a medal conteporânea the year 20/30.

. This course, which its defects and its appearance can find disapproval at first, but still has its historical value.

But it is clear that the price charged by the seller, even thinking that this is an item "valuable" (and is not) and extremely insane for this series. Yes it is an interesting piece that adds in the collection, when properly evaluated and fair price.

The statement of our colleague Kevin. with competently, proved the existence of numerous variations of local manufacturers Romanians. I agree with Jim in his observation: Officially there are only 2 types of official and other unofficial 3 4 and 5. only .. others are reproductions and copies known .. This exemplor Silver is not recognized as copying or reproduction right? is also not sensible to say that is false until proven otherwise. It is an "independent production" sand casting.

Best Regards

Lambert

Edited August 25, 2012 by lambert

[Bilco]

Hi Gents,

I've found a couple of interesting threads on a forum about Romanian awards - I see you post to this site as New Connaught Ranger, Kevin.

First thread is about fake Romanian medals:

http://www.worldwar2...?showtopic=2250

And the second shows a 14 medal bar with what I think is an unofficial Victory medal (Type 3?):

http://www.worldwar2...?showtopic=1130

Bill

[RobW]

I believe that this is a "unique item", it is not a scam, I take into consideration that it is possible to be a medal conteporânea the year 20/30.

. This course, which its defects and its appearance can find disapproval at first, but still has its historical value.

I would agree Lambert, that this piece does appear to be consistent with others from the same era, and more closely aligns with the 'unofficial type 3' variety.

The statement of our colleague Kevin. with competently, proved the existence of numerous variations of local manufacturers Romanians. I agree with Jim in his observation: Officially there are only 2 types of official and other unofficial 3 4 and 5. only .. others are reproductions and copies known .. This exemplor Silver is not recognized as copying or reproduction right? is also not sensible to say that is false until proven otherwise. It is an "independent production" sand casting.

While I have seen other examples where there was a gilt finish, or a much lighter bronze finish, this example was the first one that I have seen with a silvered finish. Without actually holding the example it would be difficult to determine if it is a silvered-bronze example, a zinc derivative, or actually produced in silver.

Either way it is an interesting example which generated discussion for a week or so.

Regards,

Rob

[johnnymac]

To All,

I agree with Bill, that the medal in the grouping might be an unofficial type-3. http://www.worldwar2.ro/forum/index.php?showtopic=1130

But the question remains: is the silver Romanian medal we have been talking about for 6-7 days just another unofficial type medal covered by decision 847 and was never before reported, and was it used by Romanian veterans or is it a fake? The photo of the Romanian medal in the group, Bill's posted site made reference to, gives that unofficial type-3 medal legitimacy. I also believe there are many other types of unofficial Victory medals from other countries that have not yet been added to the list of unofficial medals.

Laslo's list is the starting point not ending point. No one that I know has found mention of a silver type victory medal in any documentation from any country. Yet, many of us know the silver colored Victory medals do exist. Were the silver colored ones sold to the general public, so as not to be confused with the medals being issued to or purchased by the veterans? Until real supporting evident is found, such as a photo, I will remain firm in my belief that the silver victory medal is a very questionable medal. Is it collectable," yes", but at what price. This, my friends, is the bottom line for all who collect.

[Kev in Deva]

Gents,

sorry for the delay in getting to add a reply here, I have busy getting my step-daughter packed up and prepared for a move to Ireland in a week or so.

My thoughts are as follows:-

A silver Romanian Inter-Allied Victory Medal medal would not be covered by Decision 847, nearly every type of unofficial Romanian Inter-Allied Victory Medal have been seen as a bronze color or a gilt color, very possible the bronze colored ones were gilted originaly, as gilted versions are prominant on examples of many Romanian Officers bars in the Romanian Military Museum, and single items from WW1 veterans.

As a "silver" Romanian Victory medal, to my mind, its not an outright fake, but a private purchase / commissioned vanity item, I have seen an examples of The Romanian Cross of War being in gilt for Romanian Officers, where as the other ranks are invairaibly in a bronze color.

Then we must try to verify is it exactly the same size as the Un-official Type 3, made from the same die and silvered, is it a silver-plated Un-official Type 3 or is it a cast copy in silver?

I also have come across reference to Romanian Balkan Campain medals being cast in Silver for Romanian officers and having a silver hallmark on the ribbon bar between the leaves of the ribbon Öse, the medal itself being without a maker mark at the 6 o'clock postion on the rim.

I have also seen a green enameled Romanian Cross of War amongst the collection on exhibition in Timisoara, this too was privately commissioned by the original owner.

I see price gets mentioned here, a seller can ask anything and hope somebody pays for it. A high price has no bearing on the authenticity of an item, in my honest opinion.

Kevin in Deva.

[johnnymac]

Kevin,

I respect and thank you for the defense of all your thoughts. I truly can see where "you" are coming from. But I am turning out the lights and pulling on this medal to bed. There are no many on this tread who would voice their views so I add again thank you for keeping thinks from becoming boring.

I'll end by saying if we were ever to meet, let's sit in a cafe and I will order a Brandy Manhattan on the rocks, "light on the vermouth" and salute you a fellow collector, Jim

[RobW]

As a "silver" Romanian Victory medal, to my mind, its not an outright fake, but a private purchase / commissioned vanity item, I have seen an examples of The Romanian Cross of War being in gilt for Romanian Officers, where as the other ranks are invairaibly in a bronze color.

That is, I think the most pertinent point. Given that most other Romanian unofficial strikes have been seen in bronze it is indeed likely that this silver piece was a private purchase or commissioned item.

Then we must try to verify is it exactly the same size as the Un-official Type 3, made from the same die and silvered, is it a silver-plated Un-official Type 3 or is it a cast copy in silver?

Given the distinct similarities to other previously identified Romanian unofficial type 3 variants, it is very suggestive of similar dies. While it is likely that such dies were produced by local Romanian artisans it is interesting that this silver piece has found its way to France.

Regards,

Rob