DutchBoy Posted June 24, 2006 Share Posted June 24, 2006 I'm totally new (and mostly lost) when it comes to the ODM of German States. I"ve been collecting ODM of many other nations for years, but I'm becoming really drawn to these German medal bars...they're awesome!I tried nazi-era stuff, but it's too overpriced for what you get, and i don't think they're anything compared to WWI and previous German stuff. So my question is: as a beginner, which states are good for a novice to try, and are there any I should probably avoid for the time being?I've been reading as many threads in this subforum as possible, but if there is also a book someone can recommend as a good overview that would be great. Thanks for the help!Matthijs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted June 24, 2006 Share Posted June 24, 2006 There is no such thing as a general overview single-source. Imperial German is such a vast field that its references are specialized and focussed on specific states (a number of extraordinary works are coming out now) or on specific time periods. Most reference sources of any type are long out of print.So it boils down towhat are you INTERESTED in?...and then acquire the references that support that interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schießplatzmeister Posted June 24, 2006 Share Posted June 24, 2006 Dear Matthijs:Welcome to the world of Imperial German Orders and medals. I took a similar road as you when I first started. I collected 3rd Reich items at first, but got quickly frustrated with the fact that in order for my collection to expand, I had to look for items where most that I encountered on the market I believed to be forgeries. I then also saw some beautiful Imperial groupings with Orders and my interest grew. I have no regrets leaving the 3rd Reich collecting arena.Rick makes some excellent points! I would like to add a few "words of wisdom". Note that there are now copies/forgeries/counterfeits of many Imperial German Orders and decorations, from the common to the rare. Some of the forgeries are of excellent workmanship. The are also very reputable dealers, auction houses, collectors etc. who routinely sell items which are in MY OPINION forgeries, but which have come to be accepted as genuine. I believe that most of these transaction are innocent, but there are also persons who knowingly sell garbage routinely.Start with common items and don't pay too much for them. Let your instincts guide you as to what you like. Remember, common items will never go up much in value, but they are more likely to be genuine. Look at all of the pieces that you can in person (collections, shows, etc.). Look at how items are made and study how the items were made (i.e. there are excellent sources on how die-struck coins and medals are made). Be 100% happy with everything that you purchase before you put your money down. Stay away from Pilot badges, PLM's, and submarine badges in general. Study on-line listings of items as much as possible.One thing to purchase right away is a copy of the "OEK" (Orden & Ehrenzeichen, 1800-1945, Deutschland-Katalog 2005/2006) by J?rg Nimmergut. This is a good overview of what is out there and it can be used as a guide regarding values. This guide is available on German Ebay.Welcome and best of luck! Most importantly, have fun collecting, as this is what it is all about!Best regards,"SPM" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralph A Posted June 24, 2006 Share Posted June 24, 2006 ...someone can recommend a good overview that would be great.It's right under your nose. This forum is your best answer. Also try:http://home.att.net/~david.danner/militaria.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Murphy Posted June 24, 2006 Share Posted June 24, 2006 I have a tendency to agree with what Andreas posts on his site, decide on a theme and buy the best you can afford, the common items can always be gotten later. However you have to do your research first and don't hesitate to post potential purchases here on the forum and get our opinion. We can help you avoid potential pitfalls before they happen because all of us have been where you are now. Back in the old days before there were the great reference books we now have and the internet, we had to pay our money and take our chances. Often we got cheated, but that was part of the learning process. That is not neccesary now, because since you have joined this forum, you can benefit from the many years of experience of our members. Don't hesitate to ask questions of us, because that is what the forum is about, being able to help one another. Dan Murphy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DutchBoy Posted June 24, 2006 Author Share Posted June 24, 2006 (edited) Thanks for the great welcome and the great advice!Rick, you're right, I should specialize, and soon. Aimless collecting is pointless.SPM, I will get that book ASAP. Reading about the hobby is almost as fun as buying the pieces I think. Also, having collected Soviet stuff for a few years I've learned a lot about fakes...hopefully that knowledge will translate to this field.Ralph A, that site is gold! Thanks a lot!And Daniel, I will do a lot of research before I buy any major pieces, but I agree with the sentiment to buy the best you can afford...that leads to a collection that's both valuable and interesting to others.Cheers, I've got a lot of reading to do...Matthijs. Edited June 24, 2006 by DutchBoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Hunter Posted June 24, 2006 Share Posted June 24, 2006 Welcome to the slippery slope, Mathijs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramblinfarms Posted June 25, 2006 Share Posted June 25, 2006 When you're hooked, You're hooked but good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramblinfarms Posted June 25, 2006 Share Posted June 25, 2006 Yes, indeed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DutchBoy Posted June 25, 2006 Author Share Posted June 25, 2006 Damn, I just knew this would happen......gimme gimme gimme!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Hunter Posted June 25, 2006 Share Posted June 25, 2006 ...and that is how it happens, just that fast! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Murphy Posted June 25, 2006 Share Posted June 25, 2006 Damn, I just knew this would happen......gimme gimme gimme!!Ok, you asked for it. Don't say we didn't warn you.Dan Murphy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Card Posted June 26, 2006 Share Posted June 26, 2006 Hi Matthijs,I would like to add my words of welcome to our ?slippery slope? and offer some words of advice with regard to your inquiry.One of the nice things about collecting Imperial German orders and decorations is that, when compared to similar areas of collecting, with over 3,0000 individual items, there is so much from which to choose. While there are the obvious choices as to what to concentrate on such as Iron Crosses or everything and anything from Bavaria, or Baden, or Waldeck..., there are so many other options such as arts and science decorations, Napoleonic campaign/era awards, or (one of my favorites) miniatures.Rick Research, as usual, put it best with his suggestion - ?...it boils down to what are you INTERESTED in?...and then acquire the references that support that interest.? With emphasis on the last part. Go with your instincts and don?t be surprised or disappointed if a short time down the road, you change to another area; it has happened to most of us; and I can guarantee that there is a lot out there that you haven?t seen yet.Again, welcome aboard and ask lots of questions; we all do, that?s why we?re here and that?s how we all learn.Best wishes,Wild Card Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DutchBoy Posted June 26, 2006 Author Share Posted June 26, 2006 Wild Card,To start off with I'm going to collect the other states' versions of the Prussian iron cross. I've seen a number of those like the Brunswick merit cross and they look really attractive and a good beginning.Also, the Brunswick House Order of Henry the Lion is fantastic! I recently saw the grand cross of that order at the Dutch Chancellery of Orders museum in the Netherlands and it is unbelievable...maybe a 5th or 4th class for me then!p.s. Dan Murphy, shame on you for showing that! It's like giving whisky to an alcoholic!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Card Posted June 26, 2006 Share Posted June 26, 2006 (edited) Wild Card,To start off with I'm going to collect the other states' versions of the Prussian iron cross. I've seen a number of those like the Brunswick merit cross and they look really attractive and a good beginning.Also, the Brunswick House Order of Henry the Lion is fantastic! I recently saw the grand cross of that order at the Dutch Chancellery of Orders museum in the Netherlands and it is unbelievable...maybe a 5th or 4th class for me then!p.s. Dan Murphy, shame on you for showing that! It's like giving whisky to an alcoholic!!Great choice! I don?t believe it, I almost went in this direction a few years ago and I?ve often wondered why more collectors haven?t gone for them. Several years ago, a well known collector presented a fantastic display of WWI war merit crosses at the OMSA convention - I?ve never forgotten it.Speaking of OMSA (and Henry the Lion), twenty-seven years ago when I was right where you are now, in terms of collecting, I went to my first OMSA convention and saw a Henry the Lion commander?s badge! That was it. So, just for you, as a welcoming present, I just happen to have a friend visiting home for a few days... Edited June 26, 2006 by Wild Card Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Dwyer Posted June 26, 2006 Share Posted June 26, 2006 (edited) As long as Wild Card is frying poor Matthijs' brain with that beautiful Henry the Lion commander's cross, I may as well post this photo of a grand cross that was part of a recent Herman Historica auction! It's beauty is beyond description! Edited June 26, 2006 by Mike Dwyer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Dwyer Posted June 26, 2006 Share Posted June 26, 2006 (edited) A close up of the medal itself, just to make it worse!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Edited June 26, 2006 by Mike Dwyer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DutchBoy Posted June 26, 2006 Author Share Posted June 26, 2006 Gents,That is quite possibly the nicest order ever. That collar rivals the Order of the Garter collar I saw at that same Dutch museum a few weeks ago. That was a stunning piece, and this is equally beyond description!I think you guys have got me hook, line and sinker into this field! So much for plans of a new car this year....Matthijs. As long as Wild Card is frying poor Matthijs' brain with that beautiful Henry the Lion commander's cross, I may as well post this photo of a grand cross that was part of a recent Herman Historica auction! It's beauty is beyond description! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Card Posted June 26, 2006 Share Posted June 26, 2006 Right now, many of our fellow members are going ?Oh no, not good!? Yes, it?s different and the answer is on the reverse. Neatly engraved is the inventory number, as was done with all stars received by the Duke of Cambridge. This is his privately (British) made grand cross star to the Order of Henry the Lion. Enjoy!Wild Card Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guthroth Posted June 27, 2006 Share Posted June 27, 2006 (edited) HiI'm new to collecting medals - well, very new indeed.I am interested in the pre-WW1 medals of the various German and other Northern European states, and I wonder if there is a published reference book that might help me find out what is whatThanks for your helpPete Edited June 27, 2006 by Guthroth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted June 27, 2006 Share Posted June 27, 2006 Merged with the same sort of question from several days ago. Start there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guthroth Posted June 27, 2006 Share Posted June 27, 2006 HiNow I've been 'merged' I've had time to read the other replies.My interest in the period has been piqued by a general interest in European history in the period 1813 - 1871. As such my urrent interest is quite narrow - campaign medals from the period 1813 - 1871.I've seen quite a number from 1848 and 1866, a and couple from 1864 and 1870/71.Currently I'm not so interested in the flashy 'Order' medals, although I am aware of the infamous slippery slope. Are there any major pitfalls to avoid ?Is the book mentioned above a good source for information ?TIA,Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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