2 Waldeck bars - one officer and one EM

[Dave Danner]

I have only been able to find one single Division which contained elements from both Waldeck and Oldenburg--

10. Ersatz Infanterie Division.

It was formed in 1914 from Brigade Ersatz Bataillonen from Waldeck, Oldenburg, Brunswick, Saxe-Meiningen, Saxe-Weimar, Saxe-Coburg, Reuss, and Schwarzburg. These were combined into regiments within the division in 1916, though I am not sure which battalions ended up in which regiments.

I'd say on the basis of these, that one of these infantry regiments was made out of the Waldeck and Oldenburg units:

368, 269, 370, or 371 Infantry Regiments. Of these 4 choices, I find only one-- the 370th--listed on Waldeck's rolls for officers' awards BUT a very large number of awards in all classes have NO unit shown, at all.

Oldenburg and Waldeck were in different regiments. Waldeckers were, as you surmised, in IR 370. Oldenburgers ended up in IR 368.

Brigade-Ersatz-Bataillon Nr. 43, the one with the Waldeck component, became II./IR 370. Brigade-Ersatz-Bataillon Nr. 28, raised from the Ersatz Bataillone of FR 39 and IR 159, became I./IR 370. Brigade-Ersatz-Bataillon Nr. 79, raised from the Ersatz Bataillone of IR 56 and IR 57, became III./IR 370. So besides Waldeck, IR 370's troops were from Prussian Kurhessen, Westfalen and Rheinprovinz.

Brigade-Ersatz-Bataillon Nr. 37, which was raised from the Ersatz Bataillone of IR 78 and IR 91, became I./IR 368. At some point, IR 368 left the 10. Ersatz-Division and joined 213. Infanterie-Division, cutting off the Oldenburg/Waldeck connection. The rest of IR 368 was from Hannover and Braunschweig - Brig.Ers.B 37 = I./IR 368, 38 = II./IR 368, 39 = III./IR 368 and 40 = IV./IR 368 - but IV./IR 368, which included the Braunschweig elements, became III./RIR 273 in the fall of 1916.

IR 369 was mainly from Westfalen and Rheinprovinz, but included Lippe-Detmold elements: Brig.Ers.Btl. 25, 26, 27 became I., II. and III./IR 369 respectively.

IR 371 was raised from Prussian Saxony, Kurhessen, Reuss, Saxe-Weimar, Saxe-Coburg-Gotha, Saxe-Meiningen, Schwarzburg-Rudolstadt and Schwarzburg-Sondershausen. Brig.Ers.B 44 = I/IR 371; Brig.Ers.B 76 = II/IR 371, Brig.Ers.B 83 = III/IR 371.

Edited January 10, 2007 by Dave Danner

[Dave Danner]

I think the most likely was from Staff of 22nd Infantry Division (Waldeck and Saxe-Meiningen AND long service on the Russian Front, making the Austrian awards far more explainable)--

Rick is probably right about the 22. Infanterie-Division, given the Russian Front connection, but just for the general knowledge base, there is at least one other unit with a strong Waldeck/Saxe-Meiningen connection: Infanterie-Regiment Nr. 466.

IR 466 was formed on November 6, 1916 by Stellv. Gen. Kdo. XI. Armeekorps and became part of 239. Infanterie-Division. Its I. Bataillon Stab and 1. and 2. Kompanien were raised from the 1. Ersatz-Bataillon of IR 83 and its 12. Kompanie was raised by the Ersatz-Bataillon of RIR 83. Both IR 83 and RIR 83 were mixed Kurhessen and Waldeck units, with RIR 83's rear headquartered in Waldeck's capital Arolsen.

4. Kompanie of I. Bataillon and 11. Kompanie of III. Bataillon came from the 2. Ersatz-Bataillon of IR 32. The staff of III. Bataillon and its 9. and 10. Kompanien came from the 1. Ersatz-Bataillon of IR 32. IR 32 was Saxe-Meiningen's regiment.

The rest of the regiment was Kurhessisch. The rest of the 239. Infanterie-Division was mainly Kurhessisch, Nassauisch and Thuringian. 239. Infanterie-Division spent the war on the Western Front, though, so it wouldn't have had the Austrian connection that 22. ID had.

[Guest Rick Research]

Chris!

[Dave Danner]

Wow! Quite graceless.

Well, you're welcome anyway.

[Guest Rick Research]

Werner-- finished the roll and got him in one. No SMK for the other two Doctors.

[WNickel]

Congratulation Rick and many thanks

but I have a lot of questions....

[WNickel]

Hi Rick,

I think you have done a good work - but I will proof you again

[WNickel]

...and now your "Meisterst?ck"

[Guest Rick Research]

Werner! You need to get an Epson scanner!

You must have lots of Euros saved up because there hasn't been anything out there for poor boys like us!

On the Waldeck bar-- not at this point. Those rolls are very very bad, with so many officers with no first names or units it's no longer very helpful for anyone with common names.

That GMVK/SMK/HE3bX/SMM/Pr XV bar is FREAKISH.

Ask Daniel about any SMK/HE3bX match and then will have to look "the old fashioned way" for GMVK-- but I see no obvious suspects who would have had an XV!

[webr55]

New information on Dr. Rühle von Lilienstern!

I have found a small publication for the 50th anniversary of his death ("In Memoriam Hugo Rühle von Lilienstern", 1996). According to this book, Rühle was recalled in WW2 as Stabsarzt and director of the military hospital in Erfurt, later in Paris. He was discharged for health reasons as Oberstabsarzt in 1943 and died as a Soviet POW in 1946.

In the same book, his son writes that Rühle was wounded in WW1 and got several high decorations, among them the Red Eagle Order. However, his son was 91 at the time of writing and so probably mixed things up.

There are photos in the book (however none in uniform), I will post some when I get to my scanner.

Edited November 13, 2017 by webr55

[Guest Rick Research]

That's great!

[webr55]

As promised, here is Dr. Rühle von Lilienstern at work:

Edited November 13, 2017 by webr55

[webr55]

... and on an excursion in 1943:

Edited November 13, 2017 by webr55

[webr55]

And a painting that shows him with one of his fossils:

Edited November 13, 2017 by webr55

[Guest Rick Research]

I have been suffering through the actual Waldeck ROLLS for Daniel-- Erhard Roth used the wartime published Waldeck "Beilage" which often omitted units entirely... with actual units from the Rolls, it is possible to identify hundreds more SPECIFIC recipients with common names and account for any who were casualties etc etc.

Werner-- first bar to Dr. R v L has his COMPLETE name on the actual roll (entry #425) as opposed to the incorrect short form in the Beilage. That second bar with the KO4 and XXV is driving me crazy, but I suspect it is an "invisible" 1914 KO4, thus eluding me still. (I don't like the third bar at all).

Paul:

while I have not finished transcribing the WV4X rolls, I'm over half done and have slooked through ALL of them. The ONLY units that had the 10th ED Oldenburg/Waldeck connecion or Waldeck award to an Oldenburg unit come out to a grand total of 8-- as opposed to about 200 "possibles" when there were no units listed. Of those, subtracting other awards recipients and wartime deaths (i.e. not alive for a Hindenburg Cross) I reduce the suspects to 3 possible and a 4th I suspect was killed but cannot yet verify that he was this man.

Three possibles:

from Oldenburg Infantry Regiment 91 =

Lt SEEBOHM, received his WV4X on 19.9.16, Oberleutnant aD

from Inf Rgt 370 =

Lt dR KAFTAN who is shown as coming from IR 83 to serve in IR 370, where he earned his WV4X on 20.2.18

from Inf Rgt 371 =

Lt dR GREBEL who is NOT listed in Roth's "Beilage" but WV4X Roll "awarded 7.5., 12.5.18" (? bestwoal BEFORE paperwork? There are a very few double date notations like his scattered through-- "live" from the Prince?)

and this guy I suspect very strongly was actually killed in 1917, but the Ehrenmal shows him in RIR 91 not IR 91, which is where

Lt dR VESPER had earned his WV4X on 7.3.16.

So that's only THREE/FOUR names to search for when Oldenburg's WW1 rolls show up some bright unexpected day.

So far the Roll and "Beilage" match for WV-OX, I've added three unlisted WV3Xs from the Roll, and with not quite half the WV4Xs done, have added 7 more there from the Rolls, which also match for WVKXs.

While we can NEVER account for OK "vor dem Feinde" bars without photos of recipients wearing them, I'd tend to discount Seebohm as a potential owner. As a regular officer and native Oldenburger, I'd expect him to have had the "vdF" bar, while Kaftan and Grebel just got OKs as brigade courtesy awards.

[Paul C]

Rick, You are the "Master"!!

[Guest Rick Research]

Just the Keeper & Transcriber of Rolls!