Paul C Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 First up one of my favorite with the Waldeck service cross 4th class with swords, 580 awarded. If the FA rolls ever come to light then this guy will appear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul C Posted July 9, 2006 Author Share Posted July 9, 2006 Next up Waldeck silver service medal with swords, 4208 awarded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stogieman Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 Paul, wasn't 4.Klasse also awarded to NCO's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul C Posted July 9, 2006 Author Share Posted July 9, 2006 I just took a look through the award rolls and most LTs and Captains. No enlisted man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webr55 Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 Senior NCOs got the "Ehrenkreuz". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stogieman Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 My confusion. I thought 4.Kl. was the EK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Murphy Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 Very nice bars! I find it interesting that both have Oldenburg and Waldeck. Was there a Waldeck unit with an Oldenburg connection or vice versa?Dan Murphy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JensF. Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 Daniel, we are still trying to find out why you can find the Oldenburg cross in all possible combinations of medal-bars and nationalities. Sometimes with a connection to Oldenburg but very often without. Maybe it will remain a mystery forever... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medalnet Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 Daniel, we are still trying to find out why you can find the Oldenburg cross in all possible combinations of medal-bars and nationalities. Sometimes with a connection to Oldenburg but very often without. Maybe it will remain a mystery forever...How about the fact that Oldenburg had and has sea ports. Navy..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul C Posted July 13, 2006 Author Share Posted July 13, 2006 I have scanned through the Waldeck award rolls and the award was given to very few Navy officers. So my quess, based upon award numbers, is that it is Army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webr55 Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 In any case, you know the one important thing:Show us the backs!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul C Posted July 13, 2006 Author Share Posted July 13, 2006 backs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul C Posted July 13, 2006 Author Share Posted July 13, 2006 back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webr55 Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 Hm, at least the NCO bar seems to have a dark blue Navy backing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul C Posted July 14, 2006 Author Share Posted July 14, 2006 (edited) Neither of the backing are dark blue. The frack bar has a black back and the other bar has a dark green back. Just for the heck of it I went throught the award rolls for the Waldeck 4th class with swords and looked for Naval officers. I cross referenced that to the 1918 Navy Ranklist. There were only about 5 Navy Officer who were awarded the Waldeck 4th. Of these only 2 are possible candidates. They are:Mu(unlauts over the u)ssel EK2, WVK4X (page 227 of the 1918 NRL) LT. d. R MarInf (2.Matr R) Duisburg (Landwehr District) VII (Army Korp District)Dr. Rube EK2, WVK4X (page 250 of the 1918 NRL) MarOAssArzt d.R.(1.MatrArtR) Lennep (Landwehr District) VII (Army Korp District) Edited July 14, 2006 by Paul C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 I have only been able to find one single Division which contained elements from both Waldeck and Oldenburg--10. Ersatz Infanterie Division.It was formed in 1914 from Brigade Ersatz Bataillonen from Waldeck, Oldenburg, Brunswick, Saxe-Meiningen, Saxe-Weimar, Saxe-Coburg, Reuss, and Schwarzburg. These were combined into regiments within the division in 1916, though I am not sure which battalions ended up in which regiments.I'd say on the basis of these, that one of these infantry regiments was made out of the Waldeck and Oldenburg units:368, 269, 370, or 371 Infantry Regiments. Of these 4 choices, I find only one-- the 370th--listed on Waldeck's rolls for officers' awards BUT a very large number of awards in all classes have NO unit shown, at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul C Posted July 14, 2006 Author Share Posted July 14, 2006 Thanks Rick. Yes, I tend to think the guy was army and not navy. Given that the FA2 was awarded over 63000 times I don't think it will be possible to ID this guy. The published award rolls do not exist. It is a beautiful bar none the less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JensF. Posted July 15, 2006 Share Posted July 15, 2006 I saw too many medal-bars with the FA-Cross which were for sure not navy. Of course thats a possibilty for some of the bars, but not all. Just like the Hanseatic Crosses.How about the fact that Oldenburg had and has sea ports. Navy..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WNickel Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 Hi Rick,interesting informations about the 10. ErsatzD, where do you find it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 Ooooo! From German and Allied intelligance Orders of Battle.The 10. EID was formed in 1914 from Brigade Ersatz Bataillonen from the following Infanterie Brigaden:25, 26, 27, 28, 37, 38, 39, 40, 43, 44, 76, and 83 !!!Now your DOCTOR should be "easy" to find!...I come up with only FOUR.I think the most likely was from Staff of 22nd Infantry Division (Waldeck and Saxe-Meiningen AND long service on the Russian Front, making the Austrian awards far more explainable)--Oberarzt Dr. R?hle (von Lilienstern-- the roll leaves off this part of his last name!!!!) 18.12.14. (Oberarzt 20.2.12 D, Stabsarzt aD alive in 1926, FAR 11 before the war)ORStabsarzt (dR or dL) Dr. Ab?e from-- Inf Rgt 371 on 28.12.15. But there were THREE of them-- can't tell WHICH of this name and rank WAS in 10 EID!!!Or these two, with NO unit listed in the rolls--Stabsarzt dR Dr. Griemert (not "Grienert") 9.7.18Stabsarzt dR Dr. Karl Richter 21.6.18 (good luck with so many of THAT last name!)Oh where or where are the Saxe-Meiningen rolls!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WNickel Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 Ooooo! From German and Allied intelligance Orders of Battle.The 10. EID was formed in 1914 from Brigade Ersatz Bataillonen from the following Infanterie Brigaden:25, 26, 27, 28, 37, 38, 39, 40, 43, 44, 76, and 83 !!!Now your DOCTOR should be "easy" to find!...I come up with only FOUR.I think the most likely was from Staff of 22nd Infantry Division (Waldeck and Saxe-Meiningen AND long service on the Russian Front, making the Austrian awards far more explainable)--Oberarzt Dr. R?hle (von Lilienstern-- the roll leaves off this part of his last name!!!!) 18.12.14. (Oberarzt 20.2.12 D, Stabsarzt aD alive in 1926, FAR 11 before the war)ORStabsarzt (dR or dL) Dr. Ab?e from-- Inf Rgt 371 on 28.12.15. But there were THREE of them-- can't tell WHICH of this name and rank WAS in 10 EID!!!Or these two, with NO unit listed in the rolls--Stabsarzt dR Dr. Griemert (not "Grienert") 9.7.18Stabsarzt dR Dr. Karl Richter 21.6.18 (good luck with so many of THAT last name!)Oh where or where are the Saxe-Meiningen rolls!!!!!!Hi Rick,now we know, where the saxe-meiningen rolls are.... Maybe with a little help....Best regardsWerner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 Why, yes we do indeed NOW. OK, I have gotten through HALF of the pages,so there are still 50 percent to enter, but SO FAR I only have found ONE of those four--still No First Name... 11. Juni 1915: Oberarzt Dr. R?hle von Lilienstern, Gehilfe des Divisionsarztes 22. Infanterie Division.Here he is on page 55 of the Roll, Werner:Notice that in the "reasons & excuses" column it is noted that he was "born in Hildburgshausen" and so counted as a "native." That MIGHT eventually help give him back his first name. Nothing from Coburg or Weimar for him, so he is still in the running as a suspect. Remind me when I am done transcribing the Roll in a couple of weeks and we'll see if any of the other three got one from May 1916 on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn J Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 Hi Rick,Hugo R?hle von Lilienstern, born 9 August 1882 in Bedheim (Kreis Hildburghausen). Attended the Kaiser Wilhelms-Akademie from 28 March 1903 to 15 Feb 1908. Medical Doctor on 23 Jul 1909 and Assistenzarzt on 18.10.09. Initially in Infanterie-Regiment Nr. 82 until 1911. Stabsarzt on 4.8.15RegardsGlenn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 Glenn! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webr55 Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 (edited) Glenn J said: Medical Doctor on 23 Jul 1909 Yes! The title of his dissertation was "Über Bauchkontusionen in der Armee". But his more important career started after the war: as a paleontologist. He undertook several excavations in Thuringia and found important dinosaur fossils. There is even a dinosaur "Ruehleia" named after him. Rühle died in 1946. It might be possible to find a photo of him. Edited November 13, 2017 by webr55 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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