Banning of US awards?

[Hauptmann]

Hi all,

I've seen discussion of this on one of the other threads which was in that instance. So figured I'd start one here. I apologize in advance if this should be somewhere else or has already been done. But I strongly felt the need to comment on this.

And at the outset I apologize if I offend anyone as that is not my intent. However, if I offend you "into action" then so be it! And also when I get passionate about something I rant... I realize going into it that it's rather long winded. But it's how I feel. And based on the experiences of myself and my family I feel it needs to be said and acted on.

I have a small collection of U.S. awards I put together, most of them to duplicate what our (my wife's and myself) family members were or would have been awarded during their service careers. It's a tribute to them as well as representative examples of some U.S. awards for my collection. I don't actively seek them out with the exception of wanting to finish up my Legion of Merit collection.

I had a chance to purchase a MOH many years before they were banned in the states. I went for something else instead. It was an unissued piece and again would have been used as a representative example in a cased display. Nothing more. But as I say I passed it up.

But here's the thing. I've seen the comment made several times that "I don't collect U.S. medals myself" or something along those lines. I've heard this dangerous comment before.

My wife Kim and I and our son were heavily involved in the gun control fight. Kim founded (along with four other ladies from other states... over the internet) an organization called SAS (Second Amendment Sisters) and went up against Rosie O'Donnell and her Million Mom's several Mother's Days ago. She and our son were on national television on a Good Morning America two hour special from the White House where they and others went up against President Clinton and the Million Mom's. Kim was also their national spokesperson and was on just about every form of media you can think of both here in the states and overseas. They did all this in just a few short months, compared with the Million Mom's who did it over the course of a couple of years and had millions of dollars to spend. We had extremely little to work with, all donations from individuals and some corporate... and very little from the NRA I might add. And that's the way we wanted it. We did not want to be seen as a puppet of the NRA which we were not. This was a grass roots organization founded by and run by women with the support of a great number of men... husbands, boyfriends or just those who felt ours was a righteous cause.

They had a big rally to counter the MMM's up in Washington D.C. We were very close to the Washington Monument. They estimate we had 5,000 but some estimates went a great deal higher than that. Considering their lack of money and time it was a huge success.

They also had gotten a petition signed by a ton of folks and it was placed into the record in Congress... I know because I was part of the delegation that presented it to Rep. Bob Barr from Georgia in his Congressional office.

But here's what I meant earlier about dangerous comments. I heard so many hunters that I knew who stated that they were not that concerned about the gun control issue because they didn't own "assault weapons"... which of course is a misnomer to begin with! But they felt that their precious hunting guns would be immune to gun control. And these were guys that spent thousands of dollars every year hunting, between guns, ammo, vehicles,equipment, clothing, leasing land, etc. But they didn't feel threatened. However, the anti's did indeed and do indeed want "all" guns banned and confiscated. And they keep on trying.

It's like that old story about how they came for the Jews and I did nothing. They came for the Catholics and I did nothing. They came for the gays and I did nothing, etc. But when they came for me... there was no one left to help me!

It shouldn't matter whether someone collects U.S. or not... because if they can ban the one thing then they can ban it all!!!! You collect Soviet... watch out! You collect French... watch out. You collect British... well, you get the idea.

And yes, OMSA, as the preeminent organization of collectors of Orders, Decorations and Medals... they do have a duty to get off their collective duffs and do something... anything, to help fight this! Do you honestly think the American Numsimatic Association would stand by and allow a bill to pass that would effectively end coin and currency collecting in this country? I think not! They'd be marching on D.C. with pitchforks and torches if need be!

All U.S. Citizens have to realize... this is OUR government... not their government. It's "Of the people, by the people and for the people" Not... Of the politicians, by the politicians and for the politicians". This is our government and our country. These are our representatives and we MUST hold them accountable! Period!!!!

If we don't... then we have absolutely no one to blame but ourselves.

To start off, can someone please post where to locate the bill, it's sponsors and addresses of same. Then we all, as concerned members of our hobby, must write letters to each sponsor and supporter of this bill. It would also help to know which of our representatives do not support the bill and who is sitting on the fence. We must write them as well.

And not only letters but postcards too... the cheap blank ones, not the picture types. And don't be afraid to call them either! The squeaky wheel gets the grease. The more people who write, call, etc. and the more often they do so the more they'll sit up and take notice.

If you live in the D.C. area, visit Congress. Visit your Congressman's office no matter where you live... let them know in no uncertain terms that you DO NOT want this bill passed, and why.

And also get together a petition and don't be afraid to proudly sign your name to it. Get as many signatures as possible and have someone present it to Congress... preferably from OMSA.

Get support at gun, knife and militaria shows, militaria shops, surplus stores, reenactment events, you name it! Anywhere that folks will be that would be or might be supportive of our hobby.

If you've ever given a talk or put on a display at a school, club, library, museum, community center, vets center, etc. then don't be afraid to contact them, see if they enjoyed same and if so would they be willing to present you with a letter to that effect, and would they be willing to give permission for you to send a copy or copies to your representative and those who are involved in this bill. I'm sure you'll find they will give you overwhelming support.

And if you haven't... then consider doing these things... give presentations, put on displays... show people in the community what you collect, why you collect it, how you are preserving history... our collective history. You might even get a side benefit of having folks bring you things to give you or sell to you at a good price. One never knows.

I'm also a metal detectorist. I've seen that hobby bombarded by regulations and government interference for years. They keep taking chunks out of it and hence out of our enjoyment. The vast majority of detectorist's obey a code of ethics and do the right thing. But a few inconsiderate, self centered and short sighted individuals have messed it up for the rest of us. And unlike some countries like England where archeologists and museums work with detectorists... here there has been little of that. We have to fight the system every step of the way just to enjoy our hobby!

If we don't do something as a community NOW then our worst nightmares will come true and we will be facing the knock on the door. And to me, if that happens then everything our forefathers fought and died for goes out the window... because then truly the nazi's and those of similar ilk will have ultimately won. We'll live in fear... we'll be forbidden to do that which we want to do as free men and women. We'll have to hide our own property to keep it from being confiscated and could face fines or prison sentences for doing so.

Come on folks... if this is important to you then you will need to stand up and fight for your rights. Freedom has to be fought for continuously... freedom isn't free!

Well, that's my $50 worth! I'm sorry if I've offended anyone and that's not what I've intended to do. On the contrary... I want to see folks wake up and realize the danger... not only to U.S. awards or MOH's but to everything we collect and that is near and dear to us. Face it, if we are forbidden to collect what we collect, study what we study, do what we do... then we are not free... and if that's the case, then it's all over. Be prepared to present your identity papers to every cop and two bit government flunky you run into. Be prepared to lose it all.

Such things start small. Hitler started small and look what happened. Think about it!

Dan

[Ed_Haynes]

Getting this mixed up with rants about gun control may not help, at all, and may well be divisive, but this is important, and the phoney flag-wrapped patriots are in full cry on this one. And congressional sheep follow movement.

Let me just repeat what I said over on the other thread:

This is a politically driven over-reaction by a few grandstanding elected officials to unfounded paranoia and misplaced patriotism. The fear is that pitiful Walter Mitty sorts would claim medals to which they were not entritled. (OK, one of them saw a stupid movie where the main characters claim to have won the Purple Heart in order to pick up gilrs -- as if anyone in the US would know what the Purple Heart was!) Additionally, there is a move to return all US medals to the recipients or their families (even if you could determine who these "proper" people are and assuming they hadn't sold off the medals in the first place).

Unfortunately, in the US today, anything you wrap up as "patriotism", the Fools on the Hill will swallow without reading the legislation. Baah-baah. And especially with elections coming . . . .

The danger is that we will return to the old days where sale of any US medal was prohibited (but you could "trade": a used postage stamp plus some cash -- wink-wink). The FBI has also pulled off a couple of sting operations to trap naughty MoHs so they can give them to politically favoured private "museums". The last OMSA I attended, the men with ear wires and bulges in their armpit were there seeking illegal medals. Now, if Osama only had a MoH . . . .

I'm very glad I don't collect US medals except for some family items (that I don't see as "collecting"). Yet I don't have signed receipts from my great-grandfather, my uncle, or my father, transferring title of their medals to me. So when can I except the konck on the door . . . ??

See: http://www.omsa.org/forums/showthread.php?t=373 (and other threads over there)

The OMSA has taken action. Some. Doubt if it will make much difference. We need a "doorknock" campaign on the hill to counter the well funded phoney patriot-idiots who are happy with a flag-draped police state.

No, I don't collect US medals. But I do care INTENSELY.

And do remember that others are watching: Canada, Australia, Great Britain, and New Zealand; some there want similar legislation. Russia pretty much has a law banning Soviet/Russian medal collecting already.

Edited July 17, 2006 by Ed_Haynes

[Ed_Haynes]

This has been intensly discussed over on the OMSA site. In addition to the link given above, see:

http://www.omsa.org/forums/showthread.php?t=449

http://www.omsa.org/forums/showthread.php?t=447

http://www.omsa.org/forums/showthread.php?t=448

http://www.omsa.org/forums/showthread.php?t=446

And there are other threads there as well.

[Hauptmann]

Getting this mixed up with rants about gun control may not help, at all, and may well be divisive, but this is important, and the phoney flag-wrapped patriots are in full cry on this one. And congressional sheep follow movement.

Let me just repeat what I said over on the other thread:

The OMSA has taken action. Some. Doubt if it will make much difference. We need a "doorknock" campaign on the hill to counter the well funded phoney patriot-idiots.

No, I don't collect US medals. But I do care INTENSELY.

Hi Ed,

Thanks for your comments. I must say that it's "not" my intent to get anyone started on the pro gun/anti gun issue. However, it's what myself and my family were deeply involved in and there are so many parallels between these two situations that it just got too close to home for me.

And totally agree on what you say... the danger is great and it is so important that we all stand up now and do something to nip it in the bud.

Also I feel that everyone here knows of your deep commitment to our hobby and how much you care. Myself included. I'm deeply grateful for all our members, especially for those like yourself who go above and beyond the call to help any and all who ask for or appear to need your assistance. I feel better and more secure on a daily basis just knowing that kind of help and support is available.

This is a terrific hobby and it's folks like the members of our club who make it so. I pray we are never legislated out of existance as that would be a loss not only to ourselves but to our communities as well.

Again, many thanks!

Dan

[Ed_Haynes]

Back in August 2005, when this was getting started, I posted on the OMSA site the following and repeat it here:

Some sites to ponder:

http://www.congressmerge.com/onlinedb/communicating.htm

http://www.portsmouthchamber.org/howtocommunicate.cfm

http://www.rmfc.org/frg05.html

http://www.ooida.com/call_to_action/congcomm.htm

(While I may or may not like any of these sources, they do have good advice on tugging congressional chains!)

As Congressman Salazar has his fingerprints all over this, you might want to write him, regardless of where you live. But do include your congressman too.

Do your homework: http://thomas.loc.gov/

H.R. 3352, "Solen Valor Act of 2005": http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/ge...h3352ih.txt.pdf

Please at least read the bill. Some of the cheery and comforting words we have read here simply do NOT match with the legislation.

See if any congressman from your state is a co-sponsor and, even if not your district, write him/her. Many (most) co-sponsor bills without even reading them. (And, if you have the time and energy, write all the co-sponsors.)

It has been referred to the House Committee on the Judiciary. http://judiciary.house.gov/ Find out if anyone from your state is on the committee and write them too. (Or, then, maybe just write the entire committee?!) Find out when/if they have hearings set on H.R. 3352 (commit that to memory, NOW) and if no one else does it, OMSA members in and around the DC area should scheduled up to testify before the committee (our officers and board should do this, but...!!).

To target (no pun intended) the right folks: http://clerk.house.gov/members/index.html

We need to get our collective act together here, friends.

Now . . . to work on my letters. (And remember: keep it short, keep it targeted, keep it focused!) Visits are better than phone calls, phone calls are better than faxes, faxes are better than letters, letters are better than e-mails, e-mails are better than complacent silence.

[Avitas]

There was a bill here in Canada that would have banned the sale of medals as well, but it died in parliament when the last election was called. The government would love to ban everything, and it usually is in response to a miniscule amount of complaints opposed to the vast majority of logical common sense (war on drugs anyone?). Dan is right that it is OUR govenment and they should not be dictating to us, but we should be dictating to them. I think it is absurd that a government would want to eliminate the one hobby that does pay utmost respect to out war veterans in a time when they are crying out for the younger generation to remember. Personally, I cannot think of a more profound way to learn the stories of the honorable vets besides either being there or hearing it from a relative than collecting medals and memorabilia. I myself have turned many of my friends (aged 23-29 usually) on to military history, which is more than I can say for the government. Granted, here in Canada the bill was triggered by the Victoria Cross that was for sale and a foreign person wanted to buy it, but the veterans (led by Smokey Smith, VC winner as well) managed to keep it in Canada by buying it. Now I can see the point with Medals of Honour and VC's, but a 39-45 Star?!?! COme on! THis is just another example of a brain dead government throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

Keep living free!

Pat

[Hauptmann]

Amen Pat! Good one!

Thanks for posting that!

Dan

[Guest Darrell]

The Canadian Government is so inept at managing things, I would shudder to think how this would all work out. Hell, the Gun Registry turned into a FRankenstein Monster that drained Billions that could easily have been used for some "good".

For crying out loud .. we have people starving in our own Country as well as our castrated Military fighting with weapons outdated by WW2 standards.

Leave the "Knee-Jerk" Legislation in the back room and focus on issues that need to be addressed !!!

[Hauptmann]

The Canadian Government is so inept at managing things, I would shudder to think how this would all work out. Hell, the Gun Registry turned into a FRankenstein Monster that drained Billions that could easily have been used for some "good".

For crying out loud .. we have people starving in our own Country as well as our castrated Military fighting with weapons outdated by WW2 standards.

Leave the "Knee-Jerk" Legislation in the back room and focus on issues that need to be addressed !!!

Hey Darrell, don't forget the Canadian postal system! Three days to France yet two to three weeks to or from the U.S. Of course have to throw the Canadian Customs Service into that as well.

Dan

[Guest Darrell]

Hey Darrell, don't forget the Canadian postal system! Three days to France yet two to three weeks to or from the U.S. Of course have to throw the Canadian Customs Service into that as well.

Dan

I think that has to do with the Frightening Thought of so many Terrorists that have to be going back and forth between the US and Canada ... sneaking their secrets via packages disguised as Medals/ awards etc. No worry about stuff coming from Europe and Asia ... no Terrorists there

[Hauptmann]

I think that has to do with the Frightening Thought of so many Terrorists that have to be going back and forth between the US and Canada ... sneaking their secrets via packages disguised as Medals/ awards etc. No worry about stuff coming from Europe and Asia ... no Terrorists there

Ahhhh yes, governments! No matter which one or where they are... just about equally stupid across the board!

Dan

[Paul C]

Dan, I appreciate the efforts of you and your family. I for one am sick and tired of the sticking left wing crap that comes out of the democraptic party. These flea bitten, two bit, left leaning politicians make me sick. They think they know what is best for everyone when they give in to special interest groups. While I agree that to often guns get into the hands of the "wrong" people I do not think the entire population should have their rights revoked. Again it is an example of the east and left coast of the US trying to dictate what it best for the USA. I have always said that the real American is between the east and west coast.

[Ed_Haynes]

Is this relevant or is this ungentlemanly politics?!

Edited August 11, 2006 by Ed_Haynes

[Hauptmann]

Paul, I deeply appreciate your sentiments. I too feel that one side has far too much influence in our country these days, and perhaps has for quite some time. However, I feel that in a pinch, most of not all of them would jump into the foxhole and fight alongside any other American, regardless of political beliefs. We have our divisions as Americans but we always seem to come together when the going gets rough... we put aside our differences and become one. That is one of our greatest strengths.

I would be as proud to fight beside a liberal as a conservative in a good cause. And trust me when I say that myself and my immediate family have tended to be on the conservative side the vast majority of the time. But then again, conservatives have their problems and faults too. We finally became Libertarians because we got fed up with the garbage of both of the main parties... and we feel that we need "less" government involvement.

But I do agree with Ed that this is not necessarily the place for a political discussion as this is one of those hot button topics with many folks that get the hackles up and start small wars at times.

We are indeed gentleman. I feel that we can all agree that the GMIC is rather like a military wardroom or mess and there are certain subjects that should be avoided... politics being one of them. Believe me, as passionate as I am about certain subjects, even when I've seen them posted on here I've stayed away as I know I'll get hot under the collar and that's not necessarily a good thing. Not that I'm burying my head in the sand mind you... but I just feel this is not the proper place for such things.

My intent with this thread was not to get into politics or beliefs so much as to get folks moving in a positive direction such as writing Congress, their representatives and perhaps even calling them or getting petitions signed and submitted. There are things we can do. If we do nothing, and such awards are banned for collecting, then we have no one to blame but ourselves for letting it happen.

But I definitely do not want this thread to turn into anything that would devide my brother and sister members in the club.

Thanks,

Dan

[Jim Baker]

But I do agree with Ed that this is not necessarily the place for a political discussion as this is one of those hot button topics with many folks that get the hackles up and start small wars at times.

We are indeed gentleman. I feel that we can all agree that the GMIC is rather like a military wardroom or mess and there are certain subjects that should be avoided... politics being one of them. Believe me, as passionate as I am about certain subjects, even when I've seen them posted on here I've stayed away as I know I'll get hot under the collar and that's not necessarily a good thing. Not that I'm burying my head in the sand mind you... but I just feel this is not the proper place for such things.

Nice recovery Dan. Good to avoid political discussions.

[Hauptmann]

Nice recovery Dan. Good to avoid political discussions.

I thank you sir!

Dan