Albert Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 (edited) Dear All,What do you think about this number on a type 1 Polar Star? The "1" is longer than the rest. I don't think it was added but still would like to hear your opinions. Would be great if a similar number could be located for comparison.Thanks and best regards,Albert Edited July 26, 2006 by Albert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 Why add a number in front? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted July 26, 2006 Author Share Posted July 26, 2006 Why add a number in front?For same reason numbers were scratched out, to make the original number untraceable to the owner. Well, that's an observation from collecting Soviet awards. Maybe Mongols were less paranoid. So you too think it's ok? If so is a price of EUR 175 ok for such a piece? The rest is ok.Thanks,Albert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolf Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 Albert,As far as I know, in most cases, the "1" in the Polar Star I've seen is just a vertical line.But I've seen a few with the "1" as in yours, includind one or two posted in the appropriate thread. Here, Post #10, for example: http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=4238The only one in my collection with a "1" like yours (althought not as long as your "1") has what seems to be a stamped S/N 1617 (rather than the usual engraved ones, but I'm not 100% about this, need to check the Types & Variations list again) and can be seen here, Post #44: http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=5640&st=40Can you please post a pic of the obverse of yours? I guess it's of the same T & V of mine.I see no obvious reason to add a number, and I see no traces of a previous number being erased and replaced by the "1"!Just my two cents,Dolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 For same reason numbers were scratched out, to make the original number untraceable to the owner. Well, that's an observation from collecting Soviet awards. Maybe Mongols were less paranoid. So you too think it's ok? If so is a price of EUR 175 ok for such a piece? The rest is ok.Thanks,AlbertFor a "casual" Mongolian collector just interested in an SB and 1 or 2 other nice things, you sure are moving ahead quickly expanding your collection. Be careful, Mongolian can get addictive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolf Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 (edited) For same reason numbers were scratched out, to make the original number untraceable to the owner. Well, that's an observation from collecting Soviet awards. Maybe Mongols were less paranoid. So you too think it's ok? If so is a price of EUR 175 ok for such a piece? The rest is ok.Thanks,AlbertI guess Mongolians were probably less paranoid indeed If yours is of T2 (Uighur script) then the price is fair compared with prices most Western dealers are currently asking for those.Dolf Edited July 26, 2006 by Dolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted July 26, 2006 Author Share Posted July 26, 2006 ...I see no obvious reason to add a number, and I see no traces of a previous number being erased and replaced by the "1"!...Hi Dolf,That's good. As long as noone manipulated the number to either make the order more interesting by placing it into a certain era / category or to obscur the lead to the recipient.It's not mine but I can post this pic of the reverse. Sorry, don't have better pics.Best regards,Albert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted July 26, 2006 Author Share Posted July 26, 2006 For a "casual" Mongolian collector just interested in an SB and 1 or 2 other nice things, you sure are moving ahead quickly expanding your collection. Be careful, Mongolian can get addictive No worries there, Bob. My financial situation will put a lid on the "collecting" of Mongolian awards quite quickly It's just that a guy is selling a part of his collection and the SB and this OPS are the only rare and affordable ones. The rest is common stuff and price-wise unenticing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolf Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 Hi Dolf,That's good. As long as noone manipulated the number to either make the order more interesting by placing it into a certain era / category or to obscur the lead to the recipient.It's not mine but I can post this pic of the reverse. Sorry, don't have better pics.Best regards,AlbertYes, althought not being 100% sure from just this pic, it looks like a T2V1 just like mine posted in the same thread I mentioned above, but on Posts #41 and #42.Dolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjcp Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 No worries there, Bob. My financial situation will put a lid on the "collecting" of Mongolian awards quite quickly It's just that a guy is selling a part of his collection and the SB and this OPS are the only rare and affordable ones. The rest is common stuff and price-wise unenticing.Well if "Guy" wants to rid of the rest of his stuff he should give the "saleroom" a look so that the rest of us addicts can get our fix!!! Anyway, I just had a look at mine and I have one with serial #1031 and strangely enough the two "1"s are different.The first "1" looks just like the one you posted and the 2nd "1" looks like the normal straight line...Weird.. I've tried to take pictures before but the reverse is rather heavily tarnished so there is very little detail to be seen in the pictures.I'll try again in a bit and if it works I'll post them.CheersJCPS. welcome to the GMIC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted July 27, 2006 Author Share Posted July 27, 2006 (edited) [attachmentid=48049][attachmentid=48049]Well if "Guy" wants to rid of the rest of his stuff he should give the "saleroom" a look so that the rest of us addicts can get our fix!!! Anyway, I just had a look at mine and I have one with serial #1031 and strangely enough the two "1"s are different.The first "1" looks just like the one you posted and the 2nd "1" looks like the normal straight line...Weird.. I've tried to take pictures before but the reverse is rather heavily tarnished so there is very little detail to be seen in the pictures.I'll try again in a bit and if it works I'll post them.CheersJCPS. welcome to the GMIC.Thanks again!I asked him to put it on hold for me. The other items he is selling are not so rare and rather expensive. He has an Order of Combat Red Banner / Order of Military Merit / Order of Polar Star s/b no base / Order of Palar Star p/b. The prices are not competitive though.He also has a cased badge of honored KGB employee. Price is borderline and I am still thinking...Best regards,Albert Edited July 27, 2006 by Albert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosinus Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 (edited) Dear All,What do you think about this number on a type 1 Polar Star? The "1" is longer than the rest. I don't think it was added but still would like to hear your opinions. Would be great if a similar number could be located for comparison.Thanks and best regards,AlbertDefenitely there was an old number below the figures! The figures look like they were made by unprofessional hands. This hand-writing is not professional one from the mint.regards, Dima Edited July 28, 2006 by cosinus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vatjan Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 Defenitely there was an old number below the figures! The figures look like they were made by unprofessional hands. This hand-writing is not professional one from the mint.regards, DimaI'm not quite as convinced as you are Dima. I see scratches at the bottom, but I'm not sure there once was another number.I agree the hand-writing is not as professional as what we are used to see, but maybe they gave the "lowly" Mongolian stuff to apprentice engravers. Anyway, here is mine which is even worse hand-writing wise, but I studied it very thouroughly and I'm convinced it has not been tampered with.Jan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 I'm not quite as convinced as you are Dima. I see scratches at the bottom, but I'm not sure there once was another number.I agree the hand-writing is not as professional as what we are used to see, but maybe they gave the "lowly" Mongolian stuff to apprentice engravers. Anyway, here is mine which is even worse hand-writing wise, but I studied it very thouroughly and I'm convinced it has not been tampered with.JanDon't you just love Mongolian awards, they even look appealing from the back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted July 28, 2006 Author Share Posted July 28, 2006 (edited) Hello Dima,While certainly possible, I know what you mean, it is impossible to tell from those photos. I have decided to go for it and will give it a close examination once I have it. The figures themselves do not raise any concern though.But following that train of thought, did the Mongolians also reissue orders the way the Soviets did; roughly altered Orders of Nevsky come to mind as one example of what I mean.Best regards,Albert Edited July 28, 2006 by Albert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vatjan Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 Here are some more examples of bad handwriting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted July 28, 2006 Author Share Posted July 28, 2006 (edited) In the meanwhile I got a bigger pic of the Nr. Still need to see it in flesh but the handwriting is perfectly fine. The figure 8 is probably one of the more dificult ones to engrave and here it's just perfect. So if this order was renumbered, which I doubt, then most likely directly at the Monetnyj Dvor. Speaking of scratches the whole top of the Order of Sukhe Bator seems to be scratched or polisched for absolutely no reason at all.Sometimes scratches are just that: scratches. I guess. Edited July 28, 2006 by Albert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted July 28, 2006 Author Share Posted July 28, 2006 (edited) Here are some more examples of bad handwritingWow, is that what I think it is Any chance of a close up? Edited July 28, 2006 by Albert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolf Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 (edited) Wow, is that what I think it is Any chance of a close up?Albert,That's the one in my collectrion I mentioned the other day. On this thread, Post #4, with a link to this other thread, Post #44: http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=5640&st=40I have no idea what it is. Will try a close up later but it's not gona be easy: my camera won't take such close up shots, and I believe my old scanner isn't too good at those details either. So maybe the best we get is the pic Jan posted. I don't know how he did manage to have a better pic than mine btw Will see what I can do.Anyway, believe it or not, I guess it was the first time I really noticed that symbol!... Dolf Edited July 28, 2006 by Dolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted July 28, 2006 Author Share Posted July 28, 2006 Albert,That's the one in my collectrion I mentioned the other day. On this thread, Post #4, with a link to this other thread, Post #44: http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=5640&st=40I have no idea what it is. Will try a close up later but it's not gona be easy: my camera won't take such close up shots, and I believe my old scanner isn't too good at those details either. So maybe the best we get is the pic Jan posted. I don't know how he did manage to have a better pic than mine btw Will see what I can do.Anyway, believe it or not, I guess it was the first time I really noticed that symbol!... Dolf Dolf,I looked at those posts but noticed that letter only now. Looks to me like a mint worker's initial often encountered on Soviet screw-back orders probably of that period of time. Sweet!Albert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolf Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 Dolf,I looked at those posts but noticed that letter only now. Looks to me like a mint worker's initial often encountered on Soviet screw-back orders probably of that period of time. Sweet!Albert Albert,Yes, I guess it's the only logical explanation.Dolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vatjan Posted July 29, 2006 Share Posted July 29, 2006 I don't know how he did manage to have a better pic than mine btw Dolf Because you got it from me, and I took pix before sending it to you. Will post details laterJan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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