Fake Turkish War Medal made by H.ROSE SCHWERIN

[demir]

Thanks Saschaw,

Taking into consideration your argument and email, I removed the thread and the pictures.

If I find out that the medal was made at the time the other makers produced their own TWMs, I will put the pictures back,

otherwise it means that it is a recent modern forgery as you say and we don't want to see old medals printed with new names on them.

(Please keep in mind I always claimed that ; apart from the TWMs made by the Ottoman Mint, all other maker named or not named TWMs are fake/forgery for me but I love them anyway! )

Edited December 16, 2010 by demir

[saschaw]

Might I ask where this came from? It may be my tired eyes, but I have a bad feeling with it...

Rose is an order jeweller from Germany grand duchy Mecklenburg-Schwerin, in Schwerin.

[demir]

Might I ask where this came from? It may be my tired eyes, but I have a bad feeling with it...

Rose is an order jeweller from Germany grand duchy Mecklenburg-Schwerin, in Schwerin.

It came from Germany, Aachen. I sent you an email yesterday for the details.

As I pointed out on my thread there were several makers in this field and some of them were jewellers.

The medal seems authentic to me apart from the makers name on it, but if somebody finds or knows anything else about the authenticy of the medal please inform the community. The problem is there were to many makers in this field and when you see a new name, you try to get it.

demir

Edited December 16, 2010 by demir

[saschaw]

It comes from the seller I assumed.

Sorry, but I'm sure it is a modern forgery.

[demir]

It comes from the seller I assumed.

Sorry, but I'm sure it is a modern forgery.

Thanks Saschaw,

Taking into consideration your argument and email, I removed the thread and the pictures.

If I find out that the medal was made at the time the other makers produced their own TWMs, I will put the pictures back,

otherwise it means that it is a recent modern forgery as you say and we don't want to see old medals printed with new names on them.

(Please keep in mind I always claimed that ; apart from the TWMs made by the Ottoman Mint, all other maker named or not named TWMs are fake/forgery for me but I love them anyway! )

[saschaw]

Demir, I disagree with your last sentence. While they are not official made originals, they are not fakes. They might though be considered as copies. And yes, I love them too.

I'm not sure if it is good not to show a fake. If you come to conclusion to agree with my point of view it is fake, should others not see as well, to learn from it?

[Tim B]

Yes, personally I'd like to see it. Even if it was bad, we can learn by it and I think that is an important part of the forum. Heaven knows, I've posted a few that turn out to be less than expected. Better to have good and bad to compare with IMO.

Tim

[dond]

I agree with Tim. Without pics this thread is worthless. With pics it serves as a warning to fellow collectors.

[demir]

Demir, I disagree with your last sentence. While they are not official made originals, they are not fakes. They might though be considered as copies. And yes, I love them too.

I'm not sure if it is good not to show a fake. If you come to conclusion to agree with my point of view it is fake, should others not see as well, to learn from it?

Hi,

I accepted the facts, written by you in this page and your email, that this said medal was a fake one and I am sending it back to the seller and he gladly returned the payment.

I am very pleased that you warned me.Thanks.

But on the other hand, if you are accepting the fact " While they are not official made originals, they are not fakes.They might though be considered as copies. "

just to have some definitions for the words "fake and copy" will you or some other friend from GMIC please tell me;

Why do we post some threads saying that "gentlemen beware, such and such are selling fake Mecidi or Osmani orders or some people are selling UN Korea medals especially hard to find Spanish Columbian troop ones, and start yeling hey guys beware they are selling fake UN Korea medals.

Why don't we also consider them copies not fakes ?

Why some of our friends are returning their TWMs to the vendors after discussing it in this site, why don't they keep them?

If any TWM other then officially made poor looking painted TWMs "are not official made originals, they are not fakes. They might though be considered as copies", why do we complain and send the back?

When a Government issues a medal and produce it in her officially assigned Government Mint and some one makes it and sells it is it fake or a copy?

What is the line betwen original/official medal and a copy or fake or a souvenir for tourists?

Are they called "copy" when it is said by the vendor and a fake if it wasn't said ?

In this case why did we call this medal fake then, why not a copy recent or old.

Is it the name printed on it, may be there was a jeweller/company made one or two TWMs, does anybody know where the BB&Co was?

demir

[dond]

Hi Demir. I think a period made copy for wearing is significantly different than a recently made copy to fool collectors for money.

[saschaw]

Thanks Demir. And congratulations you got your money back. I think he knows why he does this...

That's a difficult and long discussion, we are having it in Germany quite often, and never all agree. It's even more difficult with people from three countries, that speak three different languages, I guess.

Don did it sum up well, at least my point of view. There's a big, a huge difference between examples that are of non-official makers, made to be worn by real reciepients, and those that are recently made to fool someone. The main difference between fakes and copies: the maker's (or seller's) intention.

A well-know German expert speaks of originals and not-originals. The latter includes anything, that is not the awarded, contemporary, officially made award. While e.g. a Godet made 1920s war medal cannot be an "original" in it's actual meaning, it is not a fake. It's not intended to deceive, and Godet probably did never claim they were of WW1 era Ottoman manufacture - why should they. So it's neither an original, nor a fake. It must be something else: a (contemporary, wearer's) copy.

It would be great, if we could agree in this very points.

:cool:

[Tim B]

Yes, I would tend to agree along those lines as well, and it applies to much more than TWM's.

As an example, u-boat badges were also manufactured post WWI and there becomes that fine line of what carries more meaning and value if you can actually get an item that was manufactured or awarded during wartime. However, the majority of items actually being found and sold these days are those that were made after the war ended and primarily manufactured for veteran replacements. They are in my eyes, period examples and unlike modern restrikes or fakes outright, not meant to deceive someone or being offered as orignal war time items. I guess it comes down to how much of a purist the individual collector choses to be.

I guess I would be more comfortable owning an item made in the 20's or 30's, than one made in the 70's, even if the quality of the later piece was so much better.

Regards,

Tim

Edited December 19, 2010 by Tim B

[demir]

I agree with Tim. Without pics this thread is worthless. With pics it serves as a warning to fellow collectors.

OK, here are the pictures:

[demir]

And the name

So this medal is not an official medal made by the Ottoman Mint and also it is not made during that period ! :angry:

[dond]

Thanks Demir. Another fake to watch out for.

[saschaw]

Same seller, similar award... I guess there will more be coming up. He once even had a (or: some) over-sized one... as bad as these are.

http://cgi.ebay.de/Eiserner-Halbmond-Orden-Gallipoli-Turkei-/270663419014

[Tim B]

Thanks Demir!

Interesting to see that it closely resembles that piece I returned last year. Note how the date and borders styles are the same and the enamel patterns and Mahlas appear somewhat close as well.

Tim

[lambert]

This sold on ebay, I suspect it is false.

?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=360329459019&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

[avsaribar]

Dear Lambert ,

Your suspect is right , it is %100 fake . As same as that sellers all other items on ebay.

Happy new year ,

Avsar Ibar

[lambert]

Dear Lambert ,

Your suspect is right , it is %100 fake . As same as that sellers all other items on ebay.

Happy new year ,

Avsar Ibar

Thanks.

Incredible that sold for U.S. $ 127.50 trashed! is a shame to have so many dishonest sellers on Ebay. The search continues for this beautiful award.

Happy 2011!

Lambert

[mahoni]

There is another seller with suspicious looking TWM and other Turkish medals, orders in my opinion. Item no: 260716562216

[avsaribar]

Yes , 260716562216 is also a %100 fake.

[demir]

It came from Germany, Aachen. I sent you an email yesterday for the details.

As I pointed out on my thread there were several makers in this field and some of them were jewellers.

The medal seems authentic to me apart from the makers name on it, but if somebody finds or knows anything else about the authenticy of the medal please inform the community. The problem is there were to many makers in this field and when you see a new name, you try to get it.

demir

I am still saying that the medal was not the problem but the maker Schwerin.

[saschaw]

And I still disagree. In my eyes, this is a modern fake. Not to be compared or even confused with old wearer's copies.

[demir]

And I still disagree. In my eyes, this is a modern fake. Not to be compared or even confused with old wearer's copies.

Hi sachaw,

But as you know, for me they are all fakes sorry copies.

On the other hand, why didn't we say anything about the date on it. It has the date 333 instead of 1333. :jumping: