Serbia Serbia Order of St. Sava V class 1883 Huguenin Freres ?

[obi007]

A few weeks ago I bought this unusually medal at the French ebay but I'm a little unfamiliar with i do not remember that I had seen before on the market. According to Pavel Car book "Serbian and Yugoslavian

Orders and Decorations" this order is probably early production of Huguenin & Freres ???

[Alex K]

Hi Nice decoration, I personally think that it may be by Bertrand of Paris, even if an earlier version rather than Huguenin Le Locle.

I attach two in my collection, the 4th Class (Gold is by Huguenin), note the more pronounced centre medallion, The Bertrand version (5th Class sliver) whilst possibly a later version has the same flatter centre medallion similar to that posted by yourself. The reverse of both are more or less identical to yours.

Any help or more confusion?

regards

Alex

[paja]

Greetings Obi,

I watched that decoration on ebay, if I remember well another member of the forum was the seller. That was the first time I saw that variant, nice catch, thanks for images!

[Rogi]

_{Looks Fantastic Is she Mint? a replacement ribbon shouldn't be that hard to fish out}

[paul wood]

Very nice, nothing identical in Car.

Paul

[avensis2000]

Any hallmarks below the crown in the cross?

I have one of these earlier ones and there's hallmark in it (from my piece the crown is missing though)

Nice catch, congratulations.

[farmer]

A few weeks ago I bought this unusually medal at the French ebay but I'm a little unfamiliar with i do not remember that I had seen before on the market. According to Pavel Car book "Serbian and Yugoslavian

Orders and Decorations" this order is probably early production of Huguenin & Freres ???

Hi,

Excellent piece, can you get a clsose up of the punch mark (reverse suspension - left side)?

[Rogi]

The mark in these productions is usually blank So if there is producer hallmark there I would be surprised and intrigued :)

[farmer]

The mark in these productions is usually blank So if there is producer hallmark there I would be surprised and intrigued

It definitely looks like a punch on the suspension of the reverse, perhaps the owner can check.

[Rogi]

It definitely looks like a punch on the suspension of the reverse, perhaps the owner can check.

On all these unknown producers, if they do have a punch it is usually blank, that is why they are unknown, the reason for this lack of hallmark could be due to a couple reasons, here is my example for reference, it has a Hallmark indentation but is blank It is from a similar producer (or a later variant of the same production) if you check the book referenced you'll see the similarities :)If we found even 1 or 2 with a hallmark then it might solve the mystery, there are a couple other threads with Obi's St. Sava that can also be used for a reference but so far to my memory none of these has a hallmark (I think Obi's is blank as well, but it would be great if he double checked

Here is mine as an example.

Edited March 17, 2014 by Rogi

[farmer]

Rogi,

Call me crazy but yours (very nice piece by the way!!) really looks to have French silver standard hallmark (boar head - up side down in your case). I have not heard of "blank" punch marks, perhaps hard to read etc. I get it, it does not tell us of particual manufacturer but at least narrows it down to a country.

Cheers.

[Rogi]

Thank you Farmer

I'll make a close up of it hopefully today or tomorrow but the upper hallmark section is blank (near the crown) (sadly I went over it religiously when it arrived

The only identification we have for my variant is the other known example in the book (which is a 3rd class) in a Belgium case Brussels, Joseph Piret Jeweler. We can only really stipulate to it either being Pirets or Hugeunin (since it shares similaries to pieces like Obi's that is believed to be from that manufacturer)

If you see an alternative hallmark, let me know because that was the only section I could make out :D

Edited March 17, 2014 by Rogi

[Rogi]

Here we go for the mark, as you can see, empty (at least as far as I can see atm )It might resemble a figure, but there is usually some type of animal (as you mentioned) inside the actual mark.

and a full shot of the attachment:

Edited March 17, 2014 by Rogi

[Alpha Draconis]

Hello Gents

So we still didn't figure out is this early Huguenin or Pires of Belgium?

Hm, boar head! I had Rogi order in my possession for some time, and i taught that this can be a boar head, like on many French silver medals, but the shape is not precisely like boar head stamp!

And yes, there is very similar stamp on Obi order, which points out that those two orders are probably from the same producer, but Rogi type with golden saint is far more rarer, and more beautiful if I may add!

I would like that we put these orders in their places in history, so if anyone has more info, share it with us!!

Rogi, nice pictures!! Well done my friend!

AD

[paja]

Order with the same image of the saint as Obi's is currently being offered. The crown is also similar but slightly different.

Apart from that there are many differences and the seller has written that it has 3 hallmarks on the ring: 900, G.A.S. and Austrian silver hallmark.

On the other hand this can not be seen on the photos and the order is described as in extremely fine condition without enamel chipping which is obviously not the case.

Any thoughts on this one? Perhaps hybrid?

http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_05_2014/post-7937-0-75586700-1399892372.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_05_2014/post-7937-0-29330400-1399892394.jpg

Edited May 12, 2014 by paja

[paja]

Close-ups.

http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_05_2014/post-7937-0-76553800-1399892433.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_05_2014/post-7937-0-92728300-1399892461.jpg

[Rogi]

Whatever it is, even if it is fully "legit"

It looks like a bit of repair going on it.

I don't like the places where it is chipped in. looks odd really. and price is way over what we would pay for anything GAS anyway of that period lol

The red on the eagles is a bit odd too like someone adding it a bit later etc. Also the attachment suspension is different from Obi's example.

Edited May 12, 2014 by Rogi

[Martha Thomas]

My brothers and I have a medal Order of Saint Sava that was given to our grandmother by the King of Serbia following WWI. She was an American Red Cross Nurse who had been on the front lines in France during the war. After the Armistice was signed she was sent to Serbia to help with the Typhus epidemic.  

[graham]

Thanks Martha, do you have any pictures you can share.