Chip Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 An aquaintance asked me if I thought this bar might be identifiable. Not being a medal guy, I couldn't help him much. Can anyone offer an opinion as to whether this bar could be attributed? It has an interesting mix of awards. Thanks, Chip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dond Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 Chip, isn't that bar currently for sale or did your guy buy it already? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chip Posted January 25, 2010 Author Share Posted January 25, 2010 Chip, isn't that bar currently for sale or did your guy buy it already? Don, As far as I know, this bar has not been offered for sale. The owner was taken aback when he started getting unsolicited offers for it and asked me to help him find out what all the interest was about. I could not tell him anything other than it appeared to be an interesting bar that might be one that could be identified. Will it be sold at some point? I assume so. Chip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claudius Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 Don, As far as I know, this bar has not been offered for sale. The owner was taken aback when he started getting unsolicited offers for it and asked me to help him find out what all the interest was about. I could not tell him anything other than it appeared to be an interesting bar that might be one that could be identified. Will it be sold at some point? I assume so. Chip reverse side please.... :love: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 Theoretically this can be identified. I've got the Hessian 1914 Ordensliste, which shows the Merit Cross of the Philipps Order X, but I do NOT have the years of the Prussian Militär Wochenblätter which would cross-check who got the MEZ2. The problem is, with a hook back bar anybody could have swapped awards anytime. The ribbon in first place is the generic war ribbon normally found on the Hessian WW1 Bravery Medals, not the Philipps Order. Might simply be "close enough" from the 1930s mounter not having any. The awards themselves are certainly consistent with a senior Hessian NCO who went out of service from the Imperial Schutztruppen before WW1, improperly wearing two long service awards per confusion with the Wehrmacht 1936 regulations. The numbers of that first award are ... minimal. That's what is causing the interest and (since most collectors are not as nice as we are) ruthless/vicious probable competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VtwinVince Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 I am the buyer of this bar, although it is certainly not my main area of interest. The medals are attached to the back not via hooks but have been stitched on. It all looks period, although a bit of a dog's breakfast. I don't have it in hand yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dond Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 A nice catch. I was interested but the seller kept bouncing back and forth between prospective buyers in an auction type sale so I bowed out..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chip Posted January 25, 2010 Author Share Posted January 25, 2010 Well, I see that I was mislead regarding the status of this bar. Although I had no personal interest in it, I am happy to see that someone here on the forum has been able to bring the bar into this circle of medal collectors/enthusiasts. Chip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VtwinVince Posted January 26, 2010 Share Posted January 26, 2010 I know what you mean, Don, things were looking a little iffy on getting this one, but I thought it had potential as a highly unusual combo. Of course ID'ing it would be great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dond Posted January 26, 2010 Share Posted January 26, 2010 Unusual and an enlistedman's bar. Things I collect. But getting into a secret bidding war whether real or imagined was too much for me. I'm not hear to inflate dealer's profits. I also will not help i.d. things for them either. They want to make the money they need to do the work. Now if you ever decide to part with it...... :whistle: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David M Posted January 26, 2010 Share Posted January 26, 2010 Unusual and an enlistedman's bar. Things I collect. But getting into a secret bidding war whether real or imagined was too much for me. I'm not hear to inflate dealer's profits. I also will not help i.d. things for them either. They want to make the money they need to do the work. Now if you ever decide to part with it...... Apperantly he is also one of the 2 germans who did not get an EKII? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted January 26, 2010 Share Posted January 26, 2010 That too is theoretically traceable. The recipient would have retired at senior sergeant rank soon after the Herero-Hottentot War, and been recalled for the Great War (his THIRD) probably as a Feldwebelleutnant der Landwehr. Coming under the Prussians, his commission date would be gazetted in the wartime Militär Wochenblätter (revealking the sort of assignment he was in)... all of which "can" be done, but would require a great amount of work and that doesn't get done out of boredom by those of us without enough hours in the day to expend in theoretical exercises on behalf of unknown parties. If the current owner is a member here, congratulations, post it (front and back please) and if... time and motivation both permit, a process of elimination MIGHT restore the recipient's name from the void of history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VtwinVince Posted January 26, 2010 Share Posted January 26, 2010 Rick, I will get good scans up as soon as I have it in hand. And Don, I will let you know if I decide to move it along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WNickel Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 Hi, here are some possible wearer of the bar Dietz Ludwig Pr WM Schutztruppe SWA J Hess HssP 4 x 22.11.1905 Dietz Pr WM SWA Schutztruppe SWA J Pr PME 2 17.08.1905 Leiser Nikolaus Pr FW J Hess HssP 4 x 14.08.1907 Leiser Nikolaus Pr FW aD Erzhausen/Hessen Schutztruppe SWA J Pr PME 2 21.05.1907 Luckhardt Friedrich Pr VWM Schutztruppe SWA J Hess HssP 4 x 08.08.1906 Luckhardt Pr VWM SWA 2. Proviantparkkolonnenabt Schutztruppe SWA J Pr PME 2 20.03.1906 Ruppert Jakob Pr FW Schutztruppe SWA J Hess HssP 4 x 08.08.1906 Ruppert Jakob Pr FW aD Rüsselsheim 1. Feldregiment Schutztruppe SWA J Pr PME 2 20.03.1906 Schellhaas Karl Pr VWM J Hess HssP 4 x 12.08.1908 Schellhaas Karl Pr VFW SWA Schutztruppe SWA + IR 117 J Pr PME 2 01.05.1908 best regards werner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VtwinVince Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 Hi Werner, thanks, that narrows the field down a little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VtwinVince Posted February 18, 2010 Share Posted February 18, 2010 I have this item in hand now. If someone would like to volunteer to post scans of it, I can send them via email. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noor Posted February 19, 2010 Share Posted February 19, 2010 (edited) Here is the scans behalf of Vince. Just amazing spange! Obverse; Reverse; Edited February 19, 2010 by Noor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VtwinVince Posted February 19, 2010 Share Posted February 19, 2010 Thanks for posting those scans, Timo, much appreciated. Notice that this seems to be a converted old-style feldspange, with the medals crudely stitched to the backing cloth. A real dog's breakfast, but it has character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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