Hungary Kiv?l? Politikai Tiszt & Hat?rőrs?g Badge

[hunyadi]

Ever gone to the museum and pressed your face to the galss and wished that you could personaly own an item in your grubby little hands? Ever looked and said "sigh....its so rare....I will probably never see one of those again....never own one....snif...."

But you pay your xtra money and take some rahter crummy shots through the glass anyways. Your chance to hold a moment with a piece of history...

[hunyadi]

Yep - I have.... that is the Kiv?l? Politikai Tiszt Badge... (Excelent Political Offciers Badge) Nice fuzzy little photo taken this past summer at the Hungarian Military Museum. Small little badge - only 34 x 37mm. A red enameled political offciers badge at the bottom with the 'international' flags behind it. Awarded to political officers who performed above and beyond the expectations of the political offcier corps. The award was a state award and had to be returned if the owner failed to live up to the expectaitons of the badge. It was instituted in 1949 and through its short use only 19 were ever awarded....

[hunyadi]

But if you wait - if you ask - even as a slight jest to an old man - you never know what they might say.....

'yep - I got one of those!' 'oh - you want to buy it?'.....

Edited December 18, 2007 by hunyadi

[hunyadi]

[hunyadi]

But certainly... you never expected that lighting could ever stirke twice!

I remember saying to Gordon 'look at these! so rare so little known about the border guard badges'

'oh well, take a photo, just to have a reference of what one looks like'

[hunyadi]

such a rare badge that I cant even find documentation on the badges... probably were from 1950 after the 'HV' (Hatarvadasz - Border Hunter) badge was discontunued. They came in three grades or Gold, Silver and Bronze. But - never thought I could ever find one...so very very rare....

[hunyadi]

until today....

[Guest Rick Research]

The moral of the story is not the finding of unexpected small treasures but

that you KNEW what to SEE when you spotted them.

I'd have thought "nice enamel, dunno what that is" and just... walked on by.

Soooooo.... there were only 19 Really Good Commissars in Hungary?

[Hauptmann]

Hi Charles,

Congratulations my friend! I'm soooooo happy for you! See... I told you that the good Lord would provide and so He did, in droves! Those are fantastic. And the first one just goes to prove that my age old expression often works... "It never hurts to ask.". I've done lost count of how many times I've asked in a conversation and the goodies start falling my way... out of thin air. One never knows from where the treasures will fall.

Keep up the great work as there's tons more to be found before you head back home.

Dan

[hunyadi]

Yes there were only 19 good commisars in the HUPR. The Kivalo badges for any segment of the military be it infantryman, artillery observer, etc... were pretty hard to get - they were not dished out to the masses and it was not until 1953 that the Hungarian Military reached its peak in terms of size. In order to get the badges in many cases (not just the politicla one) you had to show above and beyond your duties, you had to be the "poster child" of your profession - (IE others had to want to reach your level of proficiency) along with needing to have excelent grades on all your exams, etc... many of the requirements were so subjective that naturaly the decision on who got the badges was also determined by the commanding officer at company or regimental level (depending on the type of badge). So not only a great soldier but also a good 'politician' with the upper ranks. It is my belief that the badge was only avaialble for a couple of years - and political officers were mostly done on a battalion level - company in odd cases, that you had to be very special to get the badge.

I showed the badge to a couple of other dealers - many exclaimed that they had not seen one in decades... I feel very lucky!

Yes Dan - dreams do come true is all that I can think of... but after landing these two today - ready to pack up and head back...its not going to get better, well it could....

Edited December 19, 2007 by hunyadi

[hunyadi]

Shots taken with the camera today

[hunyadi]

Borderguard badge - Zsolt - do you know when these badges were used???

[hunyadi]

To compare - the 1948 "HV" or Hatarvadasz (Border Hunter Badge) these were awarded to all in bronze for being in the borderguards, then it couldbe awarded in silver for 2 1/2 - 3 years of service or capturing 60 people trying to cross the border illegaly. This is the gold grade actually and was awarded for 5-6 years of service, capturing 120 people or as a recognition award by the deputy of the Bordergurads to anyone (usualy a commemorative piece for upper ranks in the military)

[hunyadi]

Here is a bronze class - there was no finish on the badge for the bronze calss except a laquer coating - this one was probably found in a dump - but its representative...

[Gordon Craig]

Charles is leaving out the best part of the story. He talked to the "old man" (and by that I don't mean me!) at the last Militaria show on the 1st of Dec. The man promised to bring these rare badges to the Coin and Satmp show the following Tuesday. Well, we were there and he wasn't. Following week he didn't show up again and we were getting confused because he is almost always there at the same table. Last Tuesday he wasn't there again and there was someone else at his table, although he is often late in setting up. Well Charles and I were standing around talking wondering what to do next when the "old man" showed up and said he had some badges to show Charles. He showed us some amazing stuff and has promised to bring more goodies to the next monthly militaria show. I wonder what each of will be able to post next month!

Rick,

Your right about knowing what to buy because you know what it is. We saw the Political Officers badge at the Military Museum when we visited the Curator of Badges and Medals last Spring. He let us take pictures of everything they had so we have a good visual record of what these things look like. Much better than the line drawings you see in a book.

Regards,

Gordon

Edited December 19, 2007 by Gordon Craig

[hunyadi]

Why just have the silver class when you find the Gold!!!!

I wish I could find more on these, but so far no regulations that I have found...

[Ed_Haynes]

Speechless.

Lovely!

[Gordon Craig]

Charles,

Great find! My turn!!!!!!! We are back from Cyprus and it is a lot colder in BP than it was there see. See you Tuesday.

Regards,

Gordon

[Verdun16]

Hopefully I posted this in the right area. Gordon, please move this if another area would be correct. I was wondering if anyone could tell me what time period this piece was used (I'm guessing the 1950s-1960s) and why was it awarded. All I know is it was for being an excellent border guard. Thanks,

Bryan

[hunyadi]

Thanks for brinign the thread up - I have found documentation now on the Borderguard badges.

The large red star type in Bronze, Silver and Gold was the result of a design competition to replace the 'HV' badge. Unlike the HV badge the bronze was only awarded to individuals who had served for three years or who had caught illegla border crossers - it was open to all ranks and levels. It was relaesed for wear on April 4, 1950. It was worn until April 4, 1953.

Then in 1953 the 'Kivalo Karhatalom' badge and the 'Kivalo Hataror' was released to fill the void unitl 1957. In 1957 the oval style (like Verdun's post) 'Kivalo Hataror' was released and was used up to 1970.

[Verdun16]

Hi Hunyadi,

Thanks for the info on this badge. Guessed right for a change on the date of use. It's really a nice heavy piece and it's too bad they don't make them like this anymore,

Bryan

[Verdun16]

Sorry for the bad scan. The badge reads "JARORPARANCSNOK"

Bryan

[Verdun16]

[Gordon Craig]

Verdun16,

These were for leaders at the border. Unless Charles has found some new material we are not sure just excatly how large a group the wearer of this badge would have lead. A platoon sounds reasonable but I don't have any hard evidence, such as regulations, to prove that point. There used to be lots of these around but like everything else they are not that common any more.

Regards,

Gordon

[Verdun16]

Hi Gordon,

Thought it could be something like the excellant platoon leader badges. Happy that I picked this up when I did along with all the rest when they were cheap and available. Thanks for the info,

Bryan