Luftwaffe Nietsche & Guenther splittergoggles..

[Jos Le Conté]

Hello,

I'd like to find some more information about N&G splitter goggles.

Fakes are on the market,bad and better ones..

For months I try to find info about the better fakes,maybe even the good fakes,if there're any.

Some say there're,but noone can point them out.

This is one of those mysteries,if there're better fakes,who made them,where're they,who has them,how do they look,etc,etc..

Somebody has to know something,no ?

So,any info,even gossip is welcome.

A lot has been discussed in this thread..,unfortunately thread is kinda dead now.

http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/sho...ead.php?t=29902

Jos.

[François SAEZ]

Well Jos, I believe everything should be done AGAIN from the begining, we should start with the literature giving decription (Skotte and others) give description like first, secod third type .......................... show pictures (actual and wartime) show the known copies .............. I am on my way to bed but you should start and on Wednesday I will add

[François SAEZ]

Well, to start with, I am not even sure of the number of variations existing for the N&G

we have:

First type: convex lenses to deflect debris and conventional arms

Second type: retained the rigid, one-piece plastic frame with the addition of an elastic strap.

Third type: the frame moulded in 3 sections with a hinged bridge.

Type 3 exist in clear or dark version

Type 3 and possibly type 2 had a metal storage container (with proper nomenclatura written on it)

Cloth bags,removable cases and cardboard cases seems to have existed

Type 4: are goggles for night flyers

Coud someone post pics, please?

[Jos Le Conté]

Well, to start with, I am not even sure of the number of variations existing for the N&G

we have:

First type: convex lenses to deflect debris and conventional arms

Second type: retained the rigid, one-piece plastic frame with the addition of an elastic strap.

Third type: the frame moulded in 3 sections with a hinged bridge.

Type 3 exist in clear or dark version

Type 3 and possibly type 2 had a metal storage container (with proper nomenclatura written on it)

Cloth bags,removable cases and cardboard cases seems to have existed

Type 4: are goggles for night flyers

Could someone post pics, please?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree,there're some difficulties to find out about the types etc..

Fact about these goggles is that we've to do much research,just because little is known and written.

Nietsche & Guenther still exists,but it seems the period 1935-1945 never took place and almost nothing can be found.

Rathenow,a small place in Germany where Nietsche & Guenther was settled had 800 dealers/small factories dealing in optics those days..

Can we imagine ?

Still there's less information available.

What we know is that N&G not only made these goggles,but also other glasses and glasses for optics/watches..

What we don't know is if any other firm worked for N&G and if N&G used other frames as their owns for these goggles etc.

What we don't have are era catalogs etc. to see what they had and made.

Bottomline :

We've to find out all this again,study the originals and era pics and try to get a grip on all fakes on the market.

I'm in this hobby for a long time and would've thought that it would be easy to gain some more information and speak to/with longtime collectors about these goggles,but unfortunately I've to admit it failed and not many people are able to add some new information.

I think we're halfway and I'm happy with that ,we've found out quite some things sofar and I think it's a very interesting subject.

It's one of the main things in my head,probably because they're kind of mysterious.

I've noticed that there's a moment in a flight collector's life that he wants one of these,they're so typical and almost a must to have IMO,if you're a real and true pilotstuff lover ofcourse...

Not all,but many of these people just take one,they've nothing to compare,can't find good info,see one for less and go for ...the fake..!

Even then they don't care for some reason.

Probably because others can't tell them it's a fake or not..,which is a pity..

I've noticed dealers and people involved in the fakes keep their mouth shut,whatever you try,no info.

This to me is very frustrating and I've asked in several forums what people know.

Till now,...zip,nada..,not a word..

I find it strange,someone should know something IMO,but anyhow...

Let's say this thread is about gathering information and putting facts and info we've together and maybe we can bring some more light in the mysterious world of the Nietsche & Guenther Splittergoggles..

Pics and info with types etc. will follow soon.

Jos.

[J Temple-West]

I look forward to this thread..

From what I remember, N&G Gog's were maker marked. Were they also letter/number coded?

[Jos Le Conté]

I look forward to this thread..

From what I remember, N&G Gog's were maker marked.  Were they also letter/number coded?

←

Thanks John,

I can answer your question now,but all will be revealed in this thread.

It all has to do with the different types etc..

I'll start with the first type,they look like a pair of regular sunglasses,but lenses and frame are typical N&G.

I was very lucky to pick this set up,this type is very hard to find.

I was also lucky to get a few shots of era pics from Fran?ois,even the pics are scarce..

Here's the first type :

Jos.

[Jos Le Conté]

Makermark ( NiGuRa ) and number 2. ( size )

And Luftdog wearing a pair of these..

Jos.

Edited May 30, 2005 by Jos Le Cont

[François SAEZ]

I believe that the mistake not to make is to mix everything.

We need to go step by step in order to avoid the regular confusion and that, IMO, start by why such glasses, then the description of type 1 + pics (actual and then), after type 2 etc,etc .....

I was posting at the same time than you, sorry Jos

Edited October 31, 2007 by Fran?ois SAEZ

[Jos Le Conté]

I agree,we've to work step by step till all types are done.

After that we can make a conclusion.

After every original type we can post a known fake (if there are any of that type )

Ofcourse any additional info is welcome.

As a note:I started the thread with Nietsche & Guenther..

It should be : Nitsche & G?nther..,sorry.

Also,G?nther and Guenther is the same in German,so,Guenther is easier to write.

The makermark " NiGuRa" means Nitsche & Guenther Rathenow.

Rathenow is a small place in Germany.

Now the "Why these goggles..

The main reason :

During the war it became necessary to protect the pilot's eyes from shell fragments and free-flying pieces of the cockpit interior.

This led to the development of the "N&G Splitterbrille " ( N&G shattergoggles)

These goggles were designed in collaboration with the Knothe firm.

Here's the definition of the first type N&G :

1st type Splitterschutzbrille by N&G with convex lenses to deflect debris and conventional spectacle arms.

Lower rims with small metal bridging joints to facilitate changing lenses.

Frame with ventilation holes all around

Tinted lenses only.

A shot of the bridging joints.

Jos.

Edited May 30, 2005 by Jos Le Cont

[Jos Le Conté]

I've no further information about this first type.

I don't know of any storage case,cardboard box or cloth bag for this particular type sofar.

I'm not aware of any fakes of this type sofar.

If there're no further questions or additional info concerning this type I'll ask Fran?ois to do the 2nd type,because I don't have a pair of these.

I've quite some era shots of this type to post though..

Jos.

[J Temple-West]

Nice to see that they were stylish enough to be worn off duty, period 'Ray-bans'..

Sorry, continue.

[François SAEZ]

Not a rule but an info: one of the original pair of type 1 that I know came in a cardbox (no text on it)

[François SAEZ]

this is what I call a type II ,retained the rigid, one-piece plastic frame with the addition of an elastic strap instead of the conventional arms.

again, IMO, 3 sizes (here,as usual a "2") - not sure if they came in Cloth bags,alu cans or cardboard cases

Makermark ( NiGuRa )

I called a long time LW collector (mostly equipment) as I thought type II never had clear lenses, he told me I was wrong and honestly I tend to agree as for us it is only a matter of time to find clear lenses on type II

[François SAEZ]

view from the top

[François SAEZ]

more

[François SAEZ]

wartime pic of type II

[Jos Le Conté]

thank you !

Description is clear..

I personally haven't seen the 2nd type with clear lenses in era pics sofar.

This is just a observation and not a fact.

I'll do my best to find out some more about this.

Another fact is that recent 2nd type fakes do come with clear lenses !!

That's why this point can be or become very important IMO !

We've to keep this point in mind and try to find out for sure.

I think there's a chance the 2nd type came in a cardboard box..

Why ?

Because I think I've seen good ones in a box.

Because fakes come in a box with manual..

The manual for sure is copied from a original.

Again: this is not a fact.(yet)

Here're some additional pics of the second type.

Pay special attention to the hinges,they're the "thin" type..

(with the hinge we mean the metal part between frame and strap )

This can become important when we're talking fakes..

Jos.

[Jos Le Conté]

another..

[Jos Le Conté]

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[Jos Le Conté]

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[Jos Le Conté]

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[Jos Le Conté]

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[Jos Le Conté]

And Rudel with his 2nd type..

Jos.

[Jos Le Conté]

This 2nd type pops up very frequently lately..

Pay attention to the hinges.. (they're 3rd type )

and all have clear lenses.. ( point for us to work on )

For now I think these are recent fakes.

Jos.

[Jos Le Conté]

another..