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Hi - hope you are well ? The Met. also had a horizontal stripe on their first arm bands. Yes - you are right - Dublin

preceded the Met. by about 50 years. They are normally discounted not being on mainland Britain. Mervyn

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Hi - Rod. Strange that Victoria were wearing the 1st style of Brit. arm bands at this late date ? Did other States have this pattern as well ? Mervyn

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I am adding this question to this topic as it is about Duty Armbands.

My friend is the unofficial archivist of the Buckinghamshire Constabulary, he holds over 2000 photo's of officers from 1857 onwards and has a web site which contains details of hundreds of officers - http://www.mkheritage.co.uk/bch/index.html - The photo is of PC 42 Joseph Lorton who served, prior to joining Bucks, in Bedfordshire. He served from 22 November 1875 to 14th January 1901. We believe that the photo may have been taken to celebrate his retirement, but wonder what is the significance of the armband on his left sleeve. We know that armbands were not worn by Bucks officers and there is no evidence of them being worn by Beds officers.

Can anyone come up with a sugestion why the armband was being worn?

(Although the full web site details are shown on my preview, they do not come out in the reply....e.co.uk should be added)

Moderator please delete web site details if not allowed.

Steve

Edited by Polsa999

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What I can tell you is that the individual is not wearing Bedfordshire uniform. Bedfordshire Constabulary never wore collar badges and the guy in the photo certainly is. Are you sure that he is a Bucks. officer? The name of the photographer is a good clue but they often travelled and the town where the photographer is based can sometimes be something of a "red herring".

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There is an out of focus picture of a Beford Borough QVC helmet plate on the PMCC website. The collar dog in this photo does resemble the centre device on the helmet plate. So I wonder if he was an ex Bedford Borough man?

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There is an out of focus picture of a Beford Borough QVC helmet plate on the PMCC website. The collar dog in this photo does resemble the centre device on the helmet plate. So I wonder if he was an ex Bedford Borough man?

Nick,

No, the collar badge worn by Bedford Borough (see attached photo) was of a very distinctive design and is clearly not the badge being worn by the bobby in the photo.

Edited by Dave Wilkinson

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There is a Joseph Lorton listed in the 1861 Census living in Bedford with a d.o.b of 1851 I would guess that he is our man.

Do we *know* that this is the only version of the collar dog ever worn by Bedford Borough?

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There is a Joseph Lorton listed in the 1861 Census living in Bedford with a d.o.b of 1851 I would guess that he is our man.

Do we *know* that this is the only version of the collar dog ever worn by Bedford Borough?

The Victorian & Edwardian collar badge for Bedford Borough Police was as shown in my photo. This was later replaced by a simple King's Crown which was worn through to amalgamation. It is also worth bearing in mind that Bedford Borough, in Victorian period wore the normal Met. style striped armlet, whereas the photo of the bobby shows him wearing an armlet with horizontal stripes. Is the guy Lorton the man shown in the photo? I don't think so. The mystery continues...............

Edited by Dave Wilkinson

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Hi Guys

Many thanks for your thoughts.

Firstly I can confirm that Lorton was originally a Bedford officer and then joined the Bucks Constabulary. His service record is held by Mick Shaw who has vast numbers of Bucks officers service records. We know that Lorton was in Buckingham at least once during his service, when he was at the Quarter Sessions and got caught in a pub - he was disciplined. He never served there according to his complete service record. I can find no family connection with Buckingham .

I have seen some armbands of a similar design but they are usually surmounted by a huge brass buckle. Bucks, I am told by Mick, never wore armbands and he has over 2000 photo's of Bucks officers so I guess he must be right.

Certainly a mystery and I am not usually stumped for ideas.........!

Sorry for the delay in responding but I am still suffering with my illness.

Best wishes

Steve

Edited by Polsa999

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Hello everybody.

I am researching the Metropolitan police circa 1912, with particular interest in J (Bethnal Green) and A (Westminster) divisions. Could anybody tell me if duty armbands were worn? Most photos of the period are posed and I think for that reason I've not seen the armbands - as they are not officially on duty I suppose!

Many thanks for reading, I'd be so grateful for any information relating to the period at all.

Best wishes.

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I am researching the Metropolitan police circa 1912, with particular interest in J (Bethnal Green) and A (Westminster) divisions. Could anybody tell me if duty armbands were worn? Most photos of the period are posed and I think for that reason I've not seen the armbands - as they are not officially on duty I suppose!

Absolutely yes - they were introduced very early on in the MP's history, and did not become obsolete until 1968.

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I've just found this site today, so excuse presumption by butting in.

Duty bands are still worn today by the City of London Police (the smallest but best force in London). They are worn on the tunic, which these days only gets used for ceremonials and court. They are coloured red and white, like the dicing on the caps.

During the 1970's their was a belted light-weight tunic worn during the summer months (no shirt sleeve order then). The small band od 'Drivers' attached to the Police Garage had tunics issued without the belt (as the buckle poked the guts whilst seated), and they were also exempt duty bands in case they got entangled in the gear stick or other controls.

Apart from differing from the rest of the country in using red and white the City also have gold numerals, chevrons, pips and crowns etc. They are also unique in not having a Royal Crown on their helmet plates. This relates to the independence of the City of London dating back to the English Civil War: even today, HM The Queen has to officially request permission from the Lord Mayor to enter the City for official functions.

Stephen

(I'll hand this thread back to the Mets to swing their lamps)

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Stephan - you are an Aussie rebel - but still very welcome on GMIC. Many of the serving or, exPolice on this Forum

are Met. - so, watch out at Customs and Immigration...............

Actually, I served at Bethan Green and we had a very close and cordial relationship with the City.

Mind you, having mentioned the Met.. - all those from other Forces will now 'shoot me down.'

Please tell us something about yourself - did you serve with the City Police ? What do you do now ? Best wishes Mervyn

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May we share other police armbands here (US & foreign) or is there another forum that would be more appropriate?

Ed

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Hi - Ed. Hope all is well. I think that foreign (ie not British) armbands would be best suited to our Foreign Police

Forum - we can show a British one as part of the listing. Sounds interesting go ahead when ready. Mervyn

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Hope people don't mind me posting in an old thread as I'd be interested to know more about duty armbands, particularly in the Metropolitan Police. I've been reading that prior to 1864 Sergeants wore them on the right, not the left cuff, I am assuming this was to distinguish their rank before the introduction of chevrons in the same year?

Does anyone know the specific date when the horizontal stripes were replaced by the vertical?

Edited by SimonLMoore

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I believe that was the case with Sergeants'. You must remember thaat Orders required the uniform to be worn at all

times - the wearing of the Duty Band showing if he was on 'actual' duty. I think the change of baand happened when

the tunics replaced the frock coats in the 1860's. I will be interested to hear if anyone has any proof of that for the Met.?

Simon - welcome to GMIC - what is your interest - are you a serving Officer ? Mervyn

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Hi Mervyn, thanks for the welcome and the information!

My interest lay primarily in military uniform and equipment for many years but the Police are very much a growing interest as far as this is concerned, I'm trying to fill gaps in my knowledge as may be seen in the thread I started on here.

Sadly not a serving officer but I have a keen and growing interest, I suppose really for interest's sake in many ways, we all need a hobby as they say!

Edited by SimonLMoore

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The red and white City of London armband mentioned earlier must be the one I have, being it was stated they were the only force to have that colour ? One question, seeing as photo reference from old is mostly black and white, does anybody know what the colours on the horizontally stripped armband of the Dublin Metropolitan Police were ?

20150809_214743-1.jpg

Edited by Dublin Peeler

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The photo indicates that your band does NOT appear originate from the City of London. I say that because the buckle seems to be white metal. If the band originates from the City of London the buckle would be brass. It is something of a misnomer to suggest that the City of London Police were the only force to wear red and white duty bands. They were worn (until the 1970's) in Jersey and by the former Hove Borough Police (1858-1943) to name just two. There were probably quite a few others.

Dave. 

Hope people don't mind me posting in an old thread as I'd be interested to know more about duty armbands, particularly in the Metropolitan Police. I've been reading that prior to 1864 Sergeants wore them on the right, not the left cuff, I am assuming this was to distinguish their rank before the introduction of chevrons in the same year?

 

Does anyone know the specific date when the horizontal stripes were replaced by the vertical?

The unpublished manuscript  "The History of Metropolitan Police Uniforms & Equipment" by Wilkinson & Fairfax says:-

"Armlets - Sergeants and constables 1886. Issued with new pattern of alternate blue and white stripes of equal length".

I hope this is helpful.

 

Dave.

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