lew Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 (edited) Couple of TWM documents... I have no clue about the text Edited March 15, 2013 by lew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lew Posted March 15, 2013 Author Share Posted March 15, 2013 (edited) Awarded to Ober maschinist maat on SMS Baden... Edited March 15, 2013 by lew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lew Posted March 15, 2013 Author Share Posted March 15, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lew Posted March 15, 2013 Author Share Posted March 15, 2013 (edited) 2nd piece. Something is written in the top left corner... Edited March 15, 2013 by lew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lew Posted March 15, 2013 Author Share Posted March 15, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryG Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 (edited) Here's one of mine Edited March 17, 2013 by TerryG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryG Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 and here is a translation done by a Turkish friend a few years ago. I assume the wording remains the same on all.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryG Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 (edited) As you can see there is some doubt about the spelling of the man's name as I believe the original would have used a phonetic spelling in the Ottoman version. This is the box the cert came with. Obviously addressed to the man's wife or daughter. Name is Schampp I think. Edited March 17, 2013 by TerryG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demir Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 (edited) The first document with holes on the right: In old Turkish: Başçavuş Folker (In the wreath) (Turkish Spelling) Bin üç yüz otuz iki ve otuz üç seneleri harbinde Bader sefine-i harbiyesinde iken menafi-i devlet-i aliye emrinde hidemat-ı takrirkarane göstermiş olduğunuzdan dolayı nam-ı akdes hümayun hazret-i padişahiye olarak sana harb madalyası verildi. Bundan böyle dahi her halde kanun dairesinde ifa-yı hüsn-ü hidmetle iktisab-ı feyz ve memduhiyyete sa’y ü gayret eyleyesin. Signature (of Enver Pasha) Seal of Harbiye Nazırı Enver (Sergeant Major Folker) (Turkish spelling) (In the wreath) (Ober maschinist maat Völker on SMS Baden) During the war in the years one thousand nine hundred fourteen and fifteen while you were serving in the warship Bader./ for your highly admired services for our sublime country / you are granted the War Medal by our esteemed imperial majesty, his royal highness Sultan. So that/ from now on you will continue to carry out your duties within law in the best way possible and spend special efforts to receive praises and to reach higher levels. Signature (of Enver Pasha) Seal (Enver Minister of War) Reverse: In the box from left: Ordusu Kolordusu Fırkası Alayı Taburu Bölüğü (Memleketi) Bader Sefine-i Harbiyesinden Makine Başçavuş Almanyalı Folker In the box from left: Army Corps Division Regiment Battalion Company { THE PLACE OF BIRTH } Machinist Sergeant Major Folker of Warship Bader from Germany Edited March 17, 2013 by demir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demir Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 (edited) Second Document: I think Assistant ? Sergeant Paul Rusler was serving under the Army Auto unit no: 715 in Palestine where the Yıldırım Armies Group was deployed at the end of the war. Regards Demir Başçavuş Muavini Paul Rusler (In the wreath) Bin üç yüz otuz iki ve otuz üç seneleri harbinde vezaif-i mevdûanda hüsn-i hidmet ve say-ü gayret göstermiş olduğunuzdan dolayı nam-ı akdes hümayun hazret-i padişahiye olarak sana harb madalyası verildi. Bundan böyle dahi her halde kanun dairesinde ifa-yı hüsn-ü hidmetle iktisab-ı feyz ve memduhiyyete sa’y ü gayret eyleyesin. Signature (of Enver Pasha) Seal (Enver Minister of War) ( Assistant ? Sergeant Paul Rusler) (In the wreath) During the war in the years one thousand nine hundred fourteen and fifteen While implementing your duties given to you / for your Good services and continous effort / you are granted the War Medal by our esteemed imperial majesty, his royal highness Sultan. So that/ from now on you will continue to carry out your duties within law in the best way possible and spend special efforts to receive praises and to reach higher levels. Signature (of Enver Pasha) Seal (Enver Minister of War) Reverse: Ordusu Yıldırım Kolordusu Fırkası 715 numrolu ordu otomobil kolundan Alayı Taburu Bölüğü (Memleketi) Başçavuş Muavini Paul Rusler signatures 30 Nisan 1334 Yıldırım Kumandanlığı (seal) Reverse: Army : Thunderbolt Corps Division Army Auto Corps no: 715 Regiment Battalion Company { THE PLACE OF BIRTH } Assistant ? Sergeant Paul Rusler Signatures 30 April 1918 Yıldırım (Thurderbolt) Headquarters Seal Edited March 17, 2013 by demir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Danner Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 Rusler is not a German name. It may the Ottoman spelling of Roßler, Rosler or Rußler. Maybe Rößler or Rüßler. For a language where vowel differences are as important as Turkish, the Perso-Arabic script was a terrible choice. Would "Başçavuş Muavini" correspond to an Offizier-Stellvertreter? The unit is likely Armee-Kraftwagen-Kolonne Nr. 715, which was part of Army Group Yıldırım. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demir Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 Yes the names are all written in Turkish spelling like the first document: (Sergeant Major Folker) (Turkish spelling) (In the wreath) (Ober maschinist maat Völker on SMS Baden) -------------------- "Muavin" in Turkish means 'assistant'. So "Başçavuş Muavini" (sergeant major's assistant) is rank lower then 'Sergeant Major' - (Başçavuş) and according to Wikipedia 'Sergeant Major' is lower then Offiziersstellvertreter (Warrant Officer). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Danner Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 But those are modern ranks. The Imperial German and Ottoman armies didn't have warrant officers. I can't find a good reference to the Ottoman equivalents to German enlisted ranks, but I think it was something like this: Başçavuş - Feldwebelleutnant Başçavuş muavini - Offizier-Stellvertreter Çavuş - Feldwebel Çavuş vekili - Vizefeldwebel Onbaşı - Unteroffizier Onbaşı vekili - Gefreiter Asker - Soldat (Grenadier, Dragoner, Pionier, etc.) One problem is that there were fewer ranks in the Ottoman Army. If I remember correctly, one went from Onbaşı (no stripes) to Çavuş (one stripe) to Başçavuş muavini (two stripes) to Başçavuş (three stripes), but I may be off. Do you have any documents or information on documents where we know the actual German rank of a German recipient, as well as what was written in osmanlıca? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demir Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 (edited) Hi, For the Ottoman NCO ranks please see: History of NCO Rank Insignias in TURKEY WRITTEN by: Air Sergeant Major Salim DİKDURAN http://gmic.co.uk/index.php/files/file/40-nco-rank-insignia-used-in-the-turkish-army-since-1876/ or see the chart below by Air Sergeant Major Salim DİKDURAN According to this chart 1914-1918 period: Onbaşı (Corporal) - No stripe Çavuş (Sergeant) - 1 stripe Başçavuş Muavini - 2 stripe Başçavuş (Sergeant Major) - 3 stripe Edited March 18, 2013 by demir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infantry Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 (edited) Hi,There was one more rank for the Ottoman NCOs which was "Takimbasi" (literally head of the platoon). The rank tab of Takimbasi was four stripes on the shoulders. This rank was created in order to establish German rank system as closely as possible.Cheers Edited April 10, 2013 by infantry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaba1914 Posted August 3, 2013 Share Posted August 3, 2013 (edited) Here my one and only document. Awarded to Hptm Hans Arndt as leader of Feldfliegerabteilung 66 (later renamed to Fliegerabteilung 34) , Xanthi (Bulgaria). And here the german document Regards Alex PS: Thank to demir for translating this document Edited August 3, 2013 by jaba1914 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demir Posted August 3, 2013 Share Posted August 3, 2013 Alex, Very well kept document, very nice. Is it possible to tell us what is written on the seal. As far as I see it is "oberkommando von hag---- Turkische ---" regards Demir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaba1914 Posted August 3, 2013 Share Posted August 3, 2013 (edited) Oberkommando von Mackensen. Türk. Bevollm. Generalstab?? Regards Alex Edited August 3, 2013 by jaba1914 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demir Posted August 3, 2013 Share Posted August 3, 2013 Thanks Regards Demir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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